@Londo Bell - Totally agree! In fact, I asked Mark Perry about it. Not in the cards for this vehicle. The wait for a super-efficient EV or PHEV with third-row continues. This ain't it.
Nissan Unveils Concept Version of its All-Electric Commercial Van
Nissan today unveiled the all-electric e-NV200 Concept van at the 2012 North American Auto Show in Detroit. According to the company, the NV200 “previews a near-future production version of a full electric vehicle designed to provide businesses or families with flexible, roomy interior space, while achieving a dramatic CO2 footprint reduction.” The vehicle is expected to go on sale in 2014, although Nissan has not decided which global markets will offer the e-NV200.
Nissan’s goal is to offer four pure electric cars in its portfolio in the next few years. An EV version of the NV200—or something like it—is the company’s commercial application in the set of four. I spoke on the phone with Mark Perry, Nissan EV guy in North America—from the floor of the Detroit show shortly after the introduction. He told me, “If we enter a market, we want to demonstrate that we are the leader for electric vehicles. That means offering more segments and more vehicle selection.”
Expanding Offerings, Even If Each Model Is Not Thrilling
In my conversations with Mark in the past few months, he has repeatedly emphasized that Nissan wants its EVs to be “mass market” vehicles. Yet, the five-seat e-NV200—as almost exclusively a commercial vehicle designed for deliveries or for use as a taxi—is unlikely to come anywhere close to the LEAF’s production numbers. (Mark told me that LEAF sales in the US in 2012 will double compared to the nearly 10,000 sales in 2011.) The e-NV200 will not go on sale until about 2014—about the same time that Nissan introduces its Infiniti all-electric sedan. Which will come first? That’s undetermined. “We haven’t locked down the cadence,” said Mark.
Considering its smaller sales potential compared to the LEAF, perhaps it’s not surprising that the e-NV200 will be quite derivative from the gas-powered version. In some ways, the e-NV200 is Nissan’s answer to the Ford Transit Connect Electric—a limited production vehicle based on a gas-version and intended as a commercial delivery van or taxi. However, Mark Perry was quick to make distinctions between the two, explaining that from the beginning, designers of the NV200 platform were thinking about where batteries and other EV components would go. Also, Mark hinted that the e-NV200 would have a considerably lower price point than the Transit Connect Electric, which starts around $60,000. In addition, Ford outsources the conversion of the Transit Connect Electric, while Nissan will handle all production tasks in-house. Still, the e-NV200 doesn’t fully pass the sniff test as a ground-up electric vehicle the way the LEAF is.
In terms of driving range, Hideto Murakami, Nissan corporate vice president, said the NV200 would be similar to the Nissan LEAF—commonly 80 to 100 miles. Mark confirmed the size of the e-NV200’s battery pack at 24-kilowatt hours, just like the LEAF, although packaging could affect the specs. He also acknowledged that the aerodynamics of the e-NV200—a C-platform vehicle like the LEAF—would not be as good, and that the final gross vehicle weight has not been confirmed. Add it up, and the e-NV200 likely will fall short of the LEAF’s range.
The lithium-ion battery pack will be composed of 48 compact modules and an 80-kW AC synchronous motor that generates 207 lb-ft (280 N-m/rpm) of torque. The e-NV200 will come with a 6.6 kW on-board charger and an option for DC Fast Charge port.
No Promises About Coming to US
Mark said that Nissan has not fully committed to which global markets would receive the e-NV200—although the gas-powered version of the NV200 is built at Nissan’s Mississippi plant, not too far from where US LEAF and EV battery production will take place in Tennessee.
The last time I saw Mark was at the Tokyo Motor Show, where Nissan displayed three concept vehicles, described as equal candidates for Nissan’s fourth and final electric vehicle (at least for the next product cycle or two). One of the options, a small urban utility car called the "Townpod," is not entirely dissimilar from the e-NV200—although with a personal vehicle flavor compared to the NV200's commercial upright stance. “Is there overlap? The answer is yes,” said Mark. This shifts the logic away from Nissan choosing the utility car as EV number four, and perhaps toward an electric sports car, like the 150-mile range ESflow. (Now, that's an EV that can get your motor running.) “These are the things we wrestle with all the time,” said Mark. A final decision has not been made.
Should we be happy about a Nissan small electric commercial van? Of course. Greater choice among electric vehicles is always good. But clearly, the e-NV200 will never be characterized as a game-changer. It’s simply one more vehicle in the overall Nissan-Infiniti line-up—one that thankfully will be offered without a gas engine or tailpipe. According to Mark, the company will have 20 launches of new products (with and without gas) in the next 24 months, and the e-NV200 could be viewed as a bullet point on that list.
Trying to figure out what might be in store beyond the four-EV portfolio, I asked Mark if any of those 20 launches will be a plug-in hybrid. He paused for a couple of seconds—as if to ponder how much he’s willing to disclose. He then said, “Stay tuned.”
Comments
· Londo Bell (not verified) · 18 weeks ago
Actually Brad, and you probably know this already from your trip in Japan, the NV200 (regular model) does come with a 7 seater package.
http://www.nissan-global.com/EN/NEWS/2009/_STORY/090519-01-e.html
"In addition to the two-seater version, the NV200 Vanette is also offered in a five-seater version with two rows of seats, and the new seven-seater wagon, which is capable for being used for both commercial and private purposes. The second- and third-row seats in the wagon fold up to create a large cargo space suitable for multipurpose use."
So I take back one of my modifications, because Nissan actually doesn't need to modify anything with seating config (may be a 3rd row set with 3 seat belts) -
JUST USE A LARGER BATTERY similar to that of Coda (but larger) for a 180 mi - 200 mi range.
Hello, Mark Perry, are you seeing this?
This will be a TRUE vehicle that has tapped into a market that no one has ever set foot upon, even though demand is there. The best minivan out there in US has a fuel mpg of no better than 23 mpg combined. Most minivans are used for short trips daily too!
· Londo Bell (not verified) · 18 weeks ago
Yeah, you probably are right. LEAF wasn't actually my 1st choice vehicle; it was the Prius V...7 seat version. When Toyota announced that USDM version will come with 5 seats, they just lost 1 sale (plus many others I believe, from other car sites I've visited).
Funny when you refer to common wisdom in industry here in the US. I guess that wisdom, gauged by the nation's IQ scores, is higher here in the US than that of Japan (and other Asian countries) and most western Europe countries. 2 things that the industry forgets - it's not the actually owner who will set in the 3rd row seats, and that there are 7 to 8 people seating in a minivan at most times!
· alt-e · 18 weeks ago
The common wisdom amoung car manufacturers are also that US drivers want trunks and not hatchbacks. And yet all the hatchbacks sell like crazy and the trunks get left on the lots. The population sometimes changes its needs and wants and the car companies can be slow to react.
Everywhere I go there are families that want small people movers with a lot of seats. It is probably the most requested EV of the car configurations that are not yet available.
I also think there would be a market for this as a commerical van as many companies, such as GE, have made a committment to green their fleets.
Nissan's plan should be to make every kind of EV for every kind of demographic that they can. They need to keep their upcoming factory busy.
· brg2290 · 18 weeks ago
Brad Berman - "This shifts the logic away from Nissan choosing the utility car as EV number four, and perhaps toward an electric sports car, like the 150-mile range ESflow. (Now, that's an EV that can get your motor running.)" !! - Exclamation points mine - brg2290
So, here's my open letter to Nissan:
I've been following the Detroit news for any additional information on the Esflow, especially as relates to possible production. Thanks Brad, this is the first comment I've read alluding to it. I'm in the process of making a spot in my garage for a new car. It will be the first new car I've ever purchased (unless you count the 1980 Renault LeCar that actually had some demo miles on it, but then the price of $4400 was used car territory anyway). I like the Tesla S a lot, but feel it's probably out of my comfort zone price wise. I like the Leaf and love the technology, but I'm not crazy about the styling. I'm curious about the Focus EV, as there's a part of me that would like to support a U.S. manufacturer.
However, my history is that since the 1980's almost all of my used car purchases have been foreign cars. The American manufacturers lost me back then when their quality was abysmal, and their ability to build a fuel efficient smaller car was non-existent. The greatest % has been Japanese because they affordably met those criteria. Of those cars, the largest % were Nissans, I'd say mostly because as a used car I felt they delivered the reliablilty of a Toyota or Honda without the premium used car prices attached to those marques. I currently drive a '96 Nissan 2-wd PU as my daily driver, and have a 1971 240-Z squirreled away in the garage (along with a 1978 Porsche 911SC and a 1991 Mazda Miata). I like sports cars, but my interest in ICE's as a practical mode of transportation is waning, and I don't feel I can justify classic car ownership as a hobby any longer.
I'm 54 (55 in February). The potential new car purchase may be the only time I'll spring for a new car. While the Leaf appeals on a practical level, I'm hoping for something a little more sports car like. To be honest, the Subaru BRZ / Scion FR-S push a lot of my buttons - light weight, attractive styling, low center of gravity, etc. - tempting. And the E-Bugster concept VW is showing in Detroit looks good.
So Nissan, give me a reason to go EV. Give me a reason to go Nissan. Give me a reason to wait. Build the Esflow, and announce that you are doing it soon!
P.S. Does anyone else see design references to the front end of the classic Cord automobiles and the Esflow?
· EVNow · 18 weeks ago
"JUST USE A LARGER BATTERY similar to that of Coda (but larger) for a 180 mi - 200 mi range."
Assuming there is enough space - they should give a couple of options in terms of range. But my guess is - there isn't enough space in a C segment car to put in more batteries.
· EVNow · 18 weeks ago
BTW, I should say - even though this doesn't offer the 3rd row of seats, the sliding door can be enticing. I think a few retail market trim changes, this can be a good seller.
· Londo Bell (not verified) · 18 weeks ago
@ EV Now,
I know that this is kinda beating a dead horse, but interesting discussion nonetheless - to me, at least.
Spec on NV200
http://www.nissan.co.uk/etc/medialib/nissaneu/_gb_en/_Other_pdf/prices_s...
Spec on LEAF
http://www.nissan.co.uk/#vehicles/electric-vehicles/electric-leaf/leaf/p...
Wheel base is actually longer in NV200: 2.725 meters (NV200) vs 2.690 meters (LEAF)
Length is actually shorter in NV200: 4.440 meters (NV200) vs 4.445 meters (LEAF)
Width is significantly wider in NV200: 2.011 meters (NV200) vs 1.770 meters (LEAF), assuming both are measured with side mirrors, otherwise, 1695 meters in NV200 and unknown for LEAF.
So it's possible to have a much larger battery with that slightly longer length but significantly wider width in NV200. In addition, being a van, the battery can be "thicker" if possible, since height is significantly higher in NV200
1.860 meter (NV) vs 1550 meter (LEAF)
For comparison sake on the Coda:
Wheelbase is 2.601 meters.
Width is 1.707 meters.
So the "larger" battery in Coda is actually located within the wheelbase, as per Coda. In addition, both the wheelbase and the width of Coda is shorter than the LEAF, not to mention the NV200. Thus, to me, a larger battery may be feasible, or at the very least, almost definitely doable with Coda's battery.
But to be honest, my understanding of battery size / materials combination vs power output is very limited :(
Now here's another thing, because this is built as a work van / passenger wagon as after-thought, it's very basic, so definitely able to use the floor space for battery instead of that space wasting folding mechanism (though that does look very nice). In addition, this van is dirt cheap to begin with! Even if one use straight conversion from UK to US, a fully loaded version for 7 people is at US$30K, and most of the time, it's not even a straight conversion, but a 1 to 1 conversion rate, i.e. whatever Nissan UK charge in GBP, the same amount it is here in US, only in US$. Look at the LEAF as an example. US$26K in US, GBP26K in UK!
A man, with a family, can dream...
· phil.manke@yahoo.com (not verified) · 6 weeks ago
Nice to see a PEVan. But I lament they managed to include the useless "A" pillar like the Leaf has. I felt constricted by the huge blind spots and small doors when I drove the Leaf. That tiny triangle window is useless. And the doorpost at my eyeline is no benefit either. Sorry boys, I'm gonna wait for the VW entry here.
· bryan38401 (not verified) · 6 weeks ago
ok real simple TO: MARK PERRY here is a standing order for 10 each e-NV200 plain white sevice vans ladder racks would be nice. I use JIM KERAS nissan in memphis.P.S love my leaf but my wife will not let me run sevice out of it.we put well over 100 miles a day and have our own network of chargers,so please need vans SOON!!!!
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"the e-NV200 will never be characterized as a game-changer. "
You want it (i.e. Nissan wants it) to be a game changer? 2 simple modifications.
1 more bench seats as the 3rd row, and use a battery slightly larger than the size of a Coda.
An 8 seater with about 180-200 mi range, win for all families!
Minivan nowadays cost a good 35K-40K already, so if Nissan markets this thing at that range (assuming no price change - drop - on Li batteries in this short time frame), but take out those luxurious items like leather seats, video monitors, fold to the floor mechanisms, i.e. all the gimmicks, in order to keep the MSRP down, I'll be first to purchase/lease one.