Tally of Nissan LEAF and Chevy Volt Sales for 2011

By · January 04, 2012

Chevy Volt Nissan LEAF

The Nissan LEAF outsold the Chevy Volt by 2,003 units in 2011.

Sales of the Chevy Volt continue to follow an upward trend in the closing months of 2011, with December sales tallied at 1,529 units. That's a decent improvement over November 2011 Volt sales of 1,139 units, and a significant uptick from the 1,108 Volts that Chevy reported selling in October. Year-end sales of the Chevy Volt can now be recorded in history as 7,671 units.

Meanwhile, Japanese automaker Nissan reports that sales of the all-electric LEAF checked in at 954 units in December. That's up from the 672 LEAFs Nissan sold in November, and a bit above the 849 LEAF sales reported for the month of October. For all of 2011, Nissan LEAF sales clocked in at 9,674 units. That's 2,003 units above the Volt's 2011 mark.

Perhaps the race between the LEAF and Volt—vehicles using different technologies at different price points—is overblown. What's more important is how close sales matched the forecasts from the respective companies. In other words, did Nissan and GM deliver (despite unforeseen problems and obstacles)?

On the account, Nissan sold close to 10,000 LEAFs in the US in 2011, nearly hitting its previously announced goal. On the other hand, General Motors came up a couple thousand units short of reaching its goal of selling 10,000 plug-in hybrid Volts in the US in 2011.

Bean-counting can be taken too far. Regardless, these are respectable numbers—a solid foundation to build on as production and sales ramp up in 2012.

Comments

· Greg R (not verified) · 2 years ago

Nissan announced they sold 20,000 leafs worldwide in 2011. We need to stop and think just how many electric vehicles that is. That is an incredible start.
GM sold (then crushed) 1117 Saturn EV1s......

· · 2 years ago

You know some pundits where quick to point out that sales dropped in December. I wonder if that was because people go shopping for gifts in December? I expect the same dip to continue in January as people pay off there holiday shopping credit cards. I know, that prediction seems out there, but it's an ancient tradition to buy paper wrapped goods in December. :)

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Although Nissan's year-end sales are significant and deserve praise for it's ground-breaking scale (for EVs), their target for 2011 was actually 20,000 in the US alone. So officially they are noticeably behind their self-created target.

· Francois B. (not verified) · 2 years ago

Well, that's all positive news!
the 1529 Volts delivered in december is 34.5% more than the 1139 Volts delivered in november. Despite the fact about the battery fire non-issue (which we have no news about the investigation with the NHTSA). GM probably could have sold more if they did produce more Volts. Production is still ramping up and sales follow. In Montreal, there is not a single Volt available on dealer's lots. Maybe a few hundred more allocations up north would be very well welcomed!

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Anon,

The goal was reduced due to earthquake and tsunami in Japan, in case you forgot.

Everything was stopped by a good 2-3 months before it slowly restarted. Then there's flood in Thailand (slight impact to Nissan).

More importantly, it's 1 factory producing all the LEAFs around the world, so US LEAFs sales are incredibly under constraint, unlike the Volt. It's impossible to gauge the demand, especially when LEAFs have such a short days-supply number.

I'm not worry about LEAFs sales yet due to this constraint, but I do seriously about Volt's sales. 3-4 months now with full production and still such a low number. Volt has also been selling nationwide since Oct or Nov, and the increase is quite modest (i.e. no doubling of numbers). Remember, GM's target is (production) 45000 US Volts in 2012. That's 3750 Volts produce per month in 2012. It's only 40% of that number at this point, and it is way past the early adopters stage.

· gary (not verified) · 2 years ago

I don't remember Nissan promising 20K US Deliveries only that they had 20K reservations.

· Michael Jennings (not verified) · 2 years ago

Actually here is what GM committed to for 2011.

"Chevrolet plans to produce 10,000 Volts by the end of the 2011 calendar year, and an additional 45,000 Volts during the 2012 calendar year. The Chevrolet Volt is produced at GM’s Detroit Hamtramck plant in Michigan, U.S.A. The state-of-the-art lithium-ion battery is produced at GM’s Brownstone Township plant, also located in Michigan."

Source: http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/news/news_detail.brand_GM.html/c...

Keep in mind that they had to give dealers demo models which they required them to not sell for at least 6 months, so it looks like they kept their promise and then some.

"1. GM Beat their 2011 Number by 45%
Chevy estimated they would produce 10,000 Volt back in March. They produced 14,510. They produced 45.1% more than their estimate. Here is the graph:

The estimate is clearly articulated in March 2011 press release (see last paragraph):
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us...04_VoltPricing

Note that the press release states PRODUCED not SALES. Many in the media are using Sales and then stating that GM did not meet their goal. I could not find any press release in which GM stated they would SELL 10,000 Volts in 2011. If someone has such a press release, please let me know."

source: http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?10900

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Michael Jennings,

If you do a web search, you'll find many news reports. The word "sell" or "sold" might not have been used, but the word "delivery" was. Delivery does imply sold to customers (retail or fleet), NOT delivery to the dealership.

Here's also an article from GM-Volt that utterly contradicted your arguments, and support the fact that GM expected to SELL 10K Volt.

http://gm-volt.com/2011/12/02/volt-has-record-sales-month-consumer-repor...

· · 2 years ago

It would be interesting to see the results of an updated consumer poll to observe how people respond to EVs. I was asked by someone the other day what an electric vehicle runs on (I thought the name gave it away, but maybe that's just me?), so my guess is there's still a lot of educating to be done.

· nu (not verified) · 2 years ago

For a truly and vibrant EV market, we need more players and more play.
This means:
1) Media stop reporting Volt as an EV (it's a hybrid)
2) Nissan, Ford, Coda, Mitsu, Tesla - pour some money into advertising.
3) Fed, State - give tax breaks to EV infra and customers - at least to the tune you are willing to forgo when giving oil companies royalty breaks.
4) People of the world - stop funding ICE engine makers and oil companies. Reward only those who give your an all electric choice.

· · 2 years ago

Great! Incredible year for EVs!

Ten years ago EV sales were about 1,000-2,000 per year. Now it is almost 20,000 per year and growing!

· · 2 years ago

@nosoupforyou - Reading your post where someone asked you what an electric vehicle runs on suddenly got me wondering how many electrons a LEAF would use from "full" to "empty" in the old electron fuel tank. If the LEAF used its full 24kWhr battery charge, there would be around 2.6 x 10^24 electrons making the loop through its motor :)

This is around 2 or 3 x 10^ - 6 grams of electrons.

Of course even these 2 or 3 micrograms of electrons don't get consumed. They just get reduced in Voltage and returned to the battery. Ready to be recharged and go again.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

Various news media are now reporting more details on the fleet sales of Volt. This really makes Volt sales number "bad."

Here's one of them, from Wall Street Journal:
http://blogs.wsj.com/drivers-seat/2012/01/04/volt-sales-rise-despite-saf...

It turns out that over 1/3 belongs to fleet sales. That means retail sales (yes, the supposedly money making ones) are about 1000 or less.

In Nov, fleet sales was about 10%, so it was also about 1000 or less retail sales.

Volt has been available throughout US in those 2 months. Volt desperately needs a much higher retail sales numbers, of it's going to be a tough case in front of the CFO and GM shareholders.

As for Nissan, can't find any fleet sales figure.

· Brett Owen (not verified) · 2 years ago

I thought Nissan reported 21k Leafs sold in November worldwide. It was either here or on greencarreports.com or something. Maybe I was imagining.

· · 2 years ago

I'm still at a loss: Who cares what the absolute number of Volts sold is? The only real question is how many Volts aren't sold and are lying around on dealer's lots compared to how many were produced?

· · 2 years ago

nu,

1. Correct
2. Tesla is already sold out of Model S production beyond this year. Why pay to advertise a product that is already sold out?

· · 2 years ago

tterbo,

Um, sales went up in December.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ ex-EV1,

GM produced 1585 MY12 Volts in Dec11. Total produced 14510 (MY11 & MY12). In addition, GM produced 2605 Opel Ampera.

http://media.gm.com/content/dam/Media/gmcom/investor/2012/0101Production...

Can't find any days supply # yet.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

On another note: Mitsubishi sold 80 "i" in Dec. Yay!

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

Here's the link to "i"

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-505245_162-57352438/december-auto-sales-mits...

· · 2 years ago

80 Mitsubishi "i" is pretty good considering that it is sold in four states only.

· Former caddy owner (not verified) · 2 years ago

So a fleet sale isn't a sale? Come on! The Prius was used by taxi companies long before they really took off. Thousands of them. The Prius is number one in fleet sales. Look at it this way ... when an employee drives a fleet Volt, that is advertisement too good to pass up.

I've had about 20 people in my Volt, and not one of them wasn't impressed. Especially when I told them that I haven't made a gas station visit in the 3 months I've owned the vehicle.

Not everyone can drive full electric, but the last census stated that the average commute time for American workers is 50 minutes (not miles). That is the perfect range for the Volt.

Last year oil was $100 a barrel. It is still around that figure. However, gas prices are way down. Either they were raping us then, or they are trying to kill the EV now. Either way, I don't like them.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@Fco,

Fleet sales is a sales, but it needs to be, and should be, separated from retail sales.

In this case, Volt is a $40K+ vehicle. That's not the price range for fleet, unless one is in the limo business. Frankly I haven't seen that many $40K+ fleet vehicles, such as Lexus, Infiniti, BMW, Mercedes, or even Cadillac!

Fleet vehicles are usually not well-maintained. They are also de-contented. I don't think that it is actually a good advertisement, and I wonder the number of people that have been "wowed" by a fleet vehicle. OTOH, many people hated the Cobalt, Cavalier, Malibu, etc. because of their experiences with fleet vehicles.

Most importantly, fleet purchases are the result of price and contract agreement. It has nothing to do with someone really want to buy a Volt. Sure it adds to the numbers, but the cost will be depreciated resale value and flooded use car markets down the road. Not good to Volt owners. Besides, it paints a false picture to gauge if something is in demand, when it really isn't. This will adversely affect related industries too, such as charging station distribution, accessories production, etc.

You also got the other way around on Prius cab. Prius wasn't popular until gas hit over $4/galloon 2 years ago. It's small, costly, expensive to fix (unibody), not as susceptible to roughness, and presumably a higher maintenance cost that Crown Vic.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

Also a question here for you, Fco.

"but the last census stated that the average commute time for American workers is 50 minutes (not miles). That is the perfect range for the Volt."

Why is 50 min the perfect "range" for the Volt, and not the LEAF, i, Focus EV, or other type of Hybrids, or even a fuel saving ICE?

AFAIK, range of Volt is based on a measurement of displacement, not time.

· · 2 years ago

@Londo,
Thanks, Unfortunately, to me, that is just more irrelevant information that doesn't answer my question:
How many Volts aren't sold and are lying around on dealer's lots?

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ex

This was your question.

"how many Volts aren't sold and are lying around on dealer's lots compared to how many were produced?"

And here're your answers.

Depending on the search engine you are using, but more importantly, these are just estimates:

(cars.com)
4560+ aren't sold and are lying around on dealer's lots compared to 14510 produced.

(autotrader.com)
3830+ aren't sold lying around on dealer's lots compared to 14510 produced.

About 3000-4000 vehicles somewhere not shown up in the data.

· · 2 years ago

Same search for Nissan Leaf on cars.com reveals 649 available, or less than 1 month's supply.

· John G (not verified) · 2 years ago

I've owned a Leaf since April '11. I power it using a PV array I had installed on my roof 2 years ago. I use the savings in gas ($250 - $300/mo) to pay off the PV in a bit less than 3 years. My neighbor was so impressed with the payback, he bought 2 Leafs and a PV system to charge them in August - but his payback is much(!) faster since the cost of PV has come down since I put my PV system in 2 yrs ago. Another friend, looked over 8 months of my operational records and bought a Leaf/PV combo all to be delivered/installed in February. After 2-3 years the group of us will be driving around in e-cars on free e-gas (not from the power company!) for the next 20 years. As soon as others figure out this great combo, e-cars will take off.

· Former caddy owner (not verified) · 2 years ago

Of course range is measured in distance! Common sense tells you that 50 minutes driving is not 50 miles, unless your house and your place of business are located right at the freeway offramp. Most folks aren't. I have driven 2,100 miles and have used only 4 gallons of gas. Kill-A-Watt meter shows $0.028 per mile. I use a standard plug to charge.

Using a meter like the Kill-A-Watt is the only way to get your true charging cost. Dividing $0.028 per mile into the local cost of gas, I get a true figure of 130 mpg equivalent.

I still haven't seen any links showing fleet sales numbers.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

gm recalling 8,000 volts...sold ~7,600 last year...entire fleet recalled?

· Tweaker (not verified) · 2 years ago

Eric Lovejoy brings the Volt hate! Good job Lovejoy, you find a way to spread negativity no matter who fires you. Even among 2 cars that compete in different markets. That's ok, we all know it has more to do with hate American than anything else.

Londo Bell, you have written a considerable amount here based on false perceptions. For one, CORPORATE fleet sales are the exact same cars sold retail. Additionally, they sell for the same prices. Corporate fleet sedans are often used as executive loaners, the exact type of buyer Chevy would like to impress.

You also made some statements about Prius fleet conditions that fleet managers say are false. I urge you to read this, fleet managers love not just the Prius but hybrids in general...http://www.mercurynews.com/mr-roadshow/ci_19648014

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Tweaker,

I personally don't like to get into argument match.

But if you BELIEVE that fleet sales are the same as retail sales, then go ahead. I guess that the Volts used by NYPD will have leather seats and upgrade audio systems, just like any other regular Volt. Oh wait, you are specifying CORPORATE fleet sales - hmm...I wonder how many of that there are. I used to work in the dept that handles corporate fleet for a multi-national company (a well known one), and I can say that there's a catalog from domestics and the starting trim level is not the same as what you get in retail brochure. We sure ordered BEST OF THE BEST, which makes the lowest trim in retail brochure a luxury to our employee.

As for as Prius go, please read carefully that the conversation was on taxi cab.

BTW, GM confirmed that there are over 4400 Volts sitting in dealer lots currently.

I also don't like the fact that all the sites are comparing the 2 cars; they shouldn't.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

2 things (1 of them ex-EV1 driver doesn't care) :)

Volt fleet sales is actually higher than what I stated above. I misread from the Wall Street Journal article.

It's over 500 (over 1/3) for Dec, and about 610 (about 10%) for the previous months.

Thus, of the 7671 Volt sold, roughly 6500 to retail and 1100 to fleet.

Mark Reuss has stated that, as per ABG, Volt's production for 2012 may be lowered from 60000 units, and adjust to what the market demands.

· · 2 years ago

@Londo Bell . "BTW, GM confirmed that there are over 4400 Volts sitting in dealer lots currently."

I said this last month. Volt sales are not production constrained - but demand constrained. Among Volt fans it is had become a dogma that Volt is supply constrained & that they are selling all that they can produce. I'm sure in a few months, they will come around.

Leaf sales, OTOH, is a bit of an enigma. I know 2 SoCal dealers have a couple of dozen unsold "orphans". But rest of the country seems to still sell orphans at a premium. Though Nissan now has monthly order quotas for each dealer - I've not seen many reports that say people haven't been able to order because a certain dealer didn't have open quota. This tells me - the demand under current system of ordering is perhaps about 1,000 a month. Nissan would have to do things differently to drum up the demand when the TN plant goes online.

· · 2 years ago

I think that the key to Nissan keeping the demand high when the TN plant comes online (other than battery advancements) is for them to come out with some other car configurations. The LEAF they currently have is perfectly fine, but it is hard to find any design that works for everyone. I know they have said they are doing at least one other model, but I hope they quickly come up with a few variations, all with the same powertrain, just to keep things going until the new battery chemistries are ready.

Once we get to a 150 or 200 mile range low cost battery this issue will take care of itself. But early on they need to appeal to as many market sectors as possible.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Just a couple on thought on EV's. One get rid of the tax credit. If these vehicles are that great the free market will buy them. Second the batteries, life of the batteries is covered under warrant in the case of the volt. However they will need to be replaced. Sure technology will help with replacement, but I will still estimate 5k to 10k. Now here is the biggest problem, our ability to produce electricity. With current legislation threatening coal powered plants and EPA regulation making new power plants almost impossible. The future cost of electricity will surely increase. Fourth currently there is a tax on gas to fund roads, so you would have to be ignorant to believe that EV's will not its own version. Fifth EV's have a limited use. They are very expensive basic transportation. They are a cool from a technology view point. I could go out and buy an old Honda civic for $1500 bucks and get 40 to 45 mpg all day, my total cost of ownership would kill that of an EV. An EV is a fun toy just like having a 10 second big block car. Each vehicle has it impractical side. I dare say, to the average American EV's have a long way to go before they are a viable alternative.

· · 2 years ago

1. EV's are fighting and established ICE technology with over 100 years of development, including oil subsidies.
2 Possibly, but you are trying to price something 10-15 years in the future.
3. Most EV charging will be done overnight when there are large amounts of excess capacity. It will not be an issue for a long time, and eventually we need to produce more capacity anyway, probably through LFTR's.
4. Yes I'm sure there will some sort of road tax.
5. The only logical comparison is between vehicles of similar cost. There are plenty of ICE vehicles that cost $35K and above and no one complains about their price. The only difference is that at least EV's give you reduced operational costs. If you think oil is not going to increase in price I'd say you are mistaken.
6. What you failed to mention is the huge benefit of not using any foreign oil for personal transportation and the ability to travel emissions free in some cases, solar, hydro, and nuclear.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Not to sure what you mean by oil subsidies, but there are write off that ever business has. Recent debates over oil subsidies has proven to be normal business write off that have been mislabeled by the press and politics.
Yes oil cost will go up. Tensions in the middle east and OPEC holding a gun to the head of the world. As to new untapped oil here and else where current leaderless leaders will not allow development of these reserves. An alternative to oil is natural gas a resource in which there is an abundance
Good point about recharging
I an fine comparing equal priced vehicles. A few years ago CAR magazine did a comparison between a prius and a diesel BMW. The BMW got better mileage, and was more fun to drive. Sure that was a hybrid not an EV. The demographic of the Volt buyer is a healthy 6 figure income buyer. 20% of the lots sold were purchased by governments with federal grant money. Let the EV stand alone and truly compete for consumers without gimmicks
Sure you drive ferr from foreign oil to a point. Oil is used in the car, engine, and drivetrain for example. As for emmsion free that is a joke. The batteries have an effect on the environment both in manufacturing and in disposal. The power plants emit waste to make the power for the car.

Owning an EV is a choice that choice should be up to the free market. That choice should not be clouded by ignorant laws and policies that give advantages to EV's. Policies that set foolish cafe standards designed to kill the ICE. Personally I think EV's are cool but I can never own one. The vehicle is to limited in its abilities. So in the coming years I as with many Americans will be punished because of our individual needs that I highly doubt the EV will be able to meet for many years

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous,
There's a great piece here for folks like you who have been mislead by those with interests in preserving the status quo:
http://www.plugincars.com/ev-haters-guide-hating-electric-cars-107560.html
http://www.plugincars.com/ev-haters-guide-chapter-2-107607.html
http://www.plugincars.com/ev-haters-guide-hating-electric-cars-third-and...
As you'll see you aren't telling us anything we haven't already heard and debunked.

· · 2 years ago

Read my post again, I was talking about the historical oil industry subsidies, which were large and existed for decades.
Natural gas is simply another limited unsustainable fossil fuel, if we are going to use it we should do so most efficiently, burning it in NG generating plants to charge EV's, not burning it in individual inefficient ICE's.
http://ephase.blogspot.com/2011/02/why-not-natural-gas.html
The Volt is not an EV, it's a hybrid.
Not sure what you mean about oil, no EV motor uses oil, there is a small amount of oil in the gearbox, that basically lasts the life of the vehicle, might need to be changed once, basically a drop in the bucket. My reference to foreign oil was the oil used to create gasoline.
Lithium batteries have a minimal effect on the environment and are recyclable when they are dead, not disposed of. I clearly said EV's have the potential to run emissions free from solar, hydro, and nuclear, which have no emissions.
I'm not sure how you will be punished in coming years, if we figure an average of 50,000 EV's sold per year x $7500 tax break divided by 300 million US citizens that works out to $1.25 per US citizen per year, until we hit 200,000 EV's, then the tax break is gone. Wow, what a rip off.

· · 2 years ago

Over 250 different kinds of subsidies for the oil industry, many of them hidden: http://www.treehugger.com/fossil-fuels/there-are-over-250-different-kind...

"when an industry has been subsidized for almost a century, as is the case with the fossil fuel industry, the ways in which those companies are supported get numerous and complex. The OECD’s report counted at least 250 mechanisms. Unlike the 1603 Program of the Department of the Treasury for clean power, most subsidies are far more opaque."

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

"So in the coming years I as with many Americans will be punished because of our individual needs"

For you and those Americans - yes, you will be punished, not by EV, but by your failure to adopt to changes, just like the dinosaurs. Changes such as the requirements in minimizing environmental disaster, air pollution, and carcinogens.

You can ALWAYS modify your needs, and you can do it ANYTIME you want, so don't be lazy. Petroleum, however, takes billions of years to form, and once it's gone, that's it.

Live closer to work, don't drive aimlessly, light foot driving, and drive slower. See, it's not difficult at all!

Or is that what you think of "punishment?"

· Mike I. (not verified) · 2 years ago

Actually, I believed the line about Volt being production constrained. However, I did a search on Cars.com on Jan 6, 2012 and I must say I was surprised. It showed 80 Volts in stock at 17 dealers within 50 miles of downtown San Francisco. That is a lot more than I expected. The two dealers in San Jose had 15 cars between them. Although, 9 of the 15 are black, which I consider to be the least desirable color for a car that's trying for high efficiency. I also don't know their pricing policies. They may still be adding dealer markup above MSRP, etc. like we've heard about before. Those tactics would of course dampen sales and inflate inventory.

To be fair, Stevens Creek Nissan in San Jose also shows 9 Leafs in stock today as well. Maybe once people know that they are in stock they will get more foot traffic and tire kickers. Or, just stop concentrating on CA dealers and spread them around the whole country.

· · 2 years ago

I would not be surprised if a few locations that have been selling LEAF's are somewhat saturated at the moment. They also may be 2011 LEAF's which are being passed over for the 2012 models. If so they might start being discounted soon.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Mike I,

Mark Reuss from GM has stated that there are 4400+ Volt inventory at dealership's level currently, well, 2 days ago to be exact. That's in addition to X # of Volts in the transportation pipeline. Thus, NO production / supply constraint problem with Volt at all!

In fact, he also said that the initially higher production number planned for 2012 / 60K will be adjusted in order to fall inline with the actual demand...(hint: fewer Volts will be produced).

· · 2 years ago

@JRP3. "i would not be surprised if a few locations that have been selling LEAF's are somewhat saturated at the moment. They also may be 2011 LEAF's which are being passed over for the 2012 models. If so they might start being discounted soon."

Are there features on the 2012 Leaf that make it more attractive than a 2011, or is passing over a 2011 for a 2012 more a matter of perceived greater value because of lack of depreciation? Or something else?

· · 2 years ago

"So in the coming years I as with many Americans will be punished because of our individual needs"
This sounds like a whiney self-entitled Californian baby boomer who gets "punished" every time nature unfairly rains on him. After all, he was the golden generation born in the prosperity following WW2 so he's entitled to live a life of ease in sunny California.
It isn't right that the oil to run his beautiful cars will run out. He isn't going to stand for it!
Therefore, he hates us evil people who are attempting to find a sustainable alternative for him because it may have a few constraints and he's entitled to exactly what he wants.

. . . rant over, going back on topic:
It does sound like there are some unsold Volts lying around on dealer's lots. I wonder what kind of markup they are expecting. We had an order down for a Volt but walked away from it because:
- it had a $10,000 markup
- it doesn't have a middle seat in back
- it wouldn't get me to work without gasoline
- it wasn't carpool lane eligible
- the base price was huge
- GM sabotaged the design to require an ICE so it's a minimal investment in an oil-free future.
- I feel no charity to GM for what they did to me and my EV1
I suppose that since the following still applies, the market demand for this vehicle may have slowed down. Unfortunately, we can't trust the sound bites from either side to know if it is demand limited or production limited.

· · 2 years ago

@brg2290,
Others could comment more precisely but the 12 LEAF has the cold weather package, (heated seats, steering wheel, battery heater), and I think they all come with the fast charge port, which was an option on 11 LEAF's. So yes there are good reasons to choose the 12 over the 11, as well as the points you mentioned.

· · 2 years ago

@JRP3, "Others could comment more precisely but the 12 LEAF has the cold weather package, (heated seats, steering wheel, battery heater), and I think they all come with the fast charge port, which was an option on 11 LEAF's. So yes there are good reasons to choose the 12 over the 11, as well as the points you mentioned."

The 2012 SV model, which I have, does not come with the QC port, or several other accessories, such as the rearview camera, found on the more expensive SL model.

The main reason to choose a more expensive 2012 over the 2011 is the Cold Weather Package (CWP). However, the last few months of 2011 models could be ordered with CWP (had I known about it in time I'd have ordered one and saved some money). But for folks in the sunbelt, a 2011 without the CWP ought to be good enough unless one is considering resale value.

· jim1961 (climate change alarmist) (not verified) · 2 years ago

In 2010 the number of Volts + Leafs sold was 345. In 2011 there were 17,345 Leaves and Volts sold. That’s a 5027% increase in sales! It's all good.

· NISSANMASTTECH (not verified) · 2 years ago

One thing to consider is that the Leaf is not available yet in the Northeast, we are still awaiting them here in the Boston area.

· · 2 years ago

@NISSANMASTTECH,
Leaf is available to order in much of the Northeast (including Massachusetts). I placed my order in December, and the first is due to arrive here in Syracuse in February. Hang in there - they are on their way!

· Francois B. (not verified) · 2 years ago

Taken from: http://gm-volt.com/2012/01/10/gm-says-it-if-necessary-it-will-cut-volt-p...

GM’s North American President Mark Reuss said the automaker is still filling orders and may not know until around the second quarter.

“There’s no trend because we haven’t satisfied demand,” Reuss said to reporters. “I told everybody that we’d be looking at satisfying demand right around second quarter. We’re not there yet, so I don’t know.”

So, according to GM president, the Volt sales are still production bound, but in a few months, production will meet demand. So for now, the sales numbers are a nice indicator but are too early to make conclusions about the mass market trend of the sales of Volts.

· · 2 years ago

The new stricter corporate average fuel economy standard (CAFE) kicks in 2012. I hoped that it would force automakers to sell more fuel efficient cars (including Hybrids and Electrics) but it looks like it is not going to happen :(

"According to a new study from University of Michigan researchers Kate Whitefoot and Steven Skerlos, automakers probably will still have incentive to churn out bigger, hulking cars. And, once again, this footprint loophole could undermine the regulation’s effectiveness. What the researchers found was that, by and large, it would be more profitable for automakers to keep building larger and larger vehicles."
:(
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/post/cafe-loophole-could-...

:( I think that article should go on the front page of HybridCars and PlugInCars websites to raise awareness of the new CAFE loopholes!

· NISSANMASTTECH (not verified) · 2 years ago

@Brian Schwerdt, Our 220 chargers were installed yesterday (NISSAN DEALER IN QUINCY MA.)

· JoeonLI (not verified) · 2 years ago

How many of these volts where sold to fleets? I believe that the numbers I have seen for example of the 1,500 sold in Dec 2011 over 500 of them have been to fleet sales of Govt and GM. IF this is true - does it not seem just a tad unseemingly that the Govt that owns a good chunk of GM and has invested alot of money on the success of the volt is also buying so many of these things?
Add to this the Govt subsidies of 7500 per car sold and the whole thing starts to look like a textbook example of croney capitalism. This is the type of thing that happened all the time in the old soviet union and we know how well that turned out.

· · 2 years ago

@ JoeonLI - Your email suggests that the Govt helping plug-in cars get started is somehow a bad thing. Well one of the things that the Govt should do, if we want a healthy and thriving economy, is to look around and see where things are going well and where there are problems that might grow to bite us in the future.

There are many problems this nation has due to our dependance on oil. There is the trade deficit, the cost of foreign wars, the cost of the military in the Gulf between those wars, pollution related health effects, climate change, etc., etc. If we were to magically switch over to plug-in cars then many of these issues would be greatly reduced if not eliminated. But it is difficult to start a brand new way of doing things when that new way even in its low volume infancy needs to compete with the established and well optimized old way. So the new way can sometimes need a little help getting itself up to a level playing field. The Govt is doing that through the tax credit and through buying some fleet vehicles.

If you think this is such an evil thing, keep in mind that similiar things were done throughout the reign of big oil, cars would not be where they are today without the national highway system and this internet that you are using right now would not exist without similiar programs. If you don't like these kinds of things just stop driving your gasoline car, using electric power or the internet.

· · 2 years ago

Londo,

Just read your response to my previous post. I don't agree with your conclusion.

Your link has a GM spokesperson stating that the goal is to deliver 10,000 volts. He didn't specify sales and the following comment about the total required to meet the erroneous but widely accepted 10,000 sales figure isn't clearly stated by the GM official. The lack of quotation marks makes that statement more likely a journalistic embellishment. He said 10,000 deliveries. Part of the launch program is test drive vehicles and also creating workable national inventory.

The same thing happened with the press release about the Volt structural enhancements. The media didn't even include the most informative pictures that GM provided in it's press release. Site after site contained reader comments that were thoughtful but mistaken because of the lax standards that the reporting sites used in understanding the full information that GM provided. Many of the press releases where virtual copies of each other. It couldn't have been that difficult, it was a single press release with a drawing and several photographs of tech's installing the structural enhancements.

What concerns me is the vast amount of poorly vetted information that has been released about the Volt in the last few months. First the crash test vehicle that catches fire 3 weeks later, then this myopic focus on a sales number that has never been officially committed to by GM. Now the new PlugInCars article is that future Volt sales rates may be affected by all the misinformation out there. What a surprise!

We bought our Prius in 2004 and it has been a great car for us (average MPG 43), the Volt and other range extended and full electric vehicles are important steps for our country's energy future. The shallow sensationalism and misinformation has been epidemic. The Volt like the Leaf is a compromise, just like every other vehicle on the road. What it does is give the consumer choice and help to encourage the plug-in charging network and transition to other energy modalities.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ MJ,

You don't have to agree with my conclusion; it's not mine. It's GM.

At the time when the gm-volt article was published, GM has already "produced" over 10K Volts. Thus, it would be utterly senseless to say that

"GM Spokesman Rob Peterson said he does not know whether the company will reach its goal of 10,000 North American deliveries by the end of the calendar year, but to do so will require 3,858 sales this month."

Same go for the news report from CNN (CNN Money to be exact).

Look, if you're already mind set on something, that no proof can change your mind otherwise, unless you have a GM authority to speak to you directly. CNN Money is not out there to make news, and it does have credibility, especially when it is a news report and not commentary. GM-Volt is the same website that you've used, so it's unlikely that you can use it for your point of view and say, "see, I told you so," but then the same website is wrong when it states something that contradict your statement.

More importantly, GM has already conceded at this point that the 60K goal of production is no longer there for 2012, as "reported" by various news media. Something that would have been unlikely if the 10K sales...deliveries...target was met, right?

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ MJ again,

One of the gm-volt forum links that you pointed to has indeed hyperlink to a GM Media release, stating that 10K sales goal on Volt for 2011.

http://media.gm.com/content/product/public/us/en/volt/home.detail.html/c...

Here's the statement in the article:

"Chevy will sell about 10,000 Volts through the end of 2011 with 45,000 planned for 2012."

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Everything is part of the imperfect process of transition from past, present, and future. How well we do along the way will be a testament to the human condition. We as a species have done alot since our relatively short appearance span on this planet. Due to our limited perception of "time"(the big picture) I pray and have faith. Hopefully we make it last longer than previous reigns. As for the debate on choice, it comes back to cost of investment. The way I see it, fossil fuel is finite and among other related downfalls it will increase its cost. Which lets face it, people will change the way they think about pumping and burning it away.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

It's interesting to see these numbers, but you also can't read too much into them . Neither car was available across the country all year and both had supply issues. 2012 will be a much more interesting year for sales comparisons as both vehicles are now available across the country and supposedly supply will not be an issue as both manufacturers ramp up production to meed demand as necessary.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

The problem with the Volt is that it is more economical to buy a Chevy Cruze Eco. The same is true for other hybrids: the amount of time it takes to break even due to the higher cost compared to a traditional car is often much longer than the amount of time people keep the vehicles. That is why only 35% of hybrid vehicle owners buy another one when it is time to purchase a vehicle. If it were not for the government subsidies and the politics behind them, the Volt would be dead because of poor sales. IMHO, GM will need a miracle to get 45000 Volts out the door in 2012.

· · 2 years ago

Totally bogus claims obviously drawn from a recent inaccurate article with baseless assumptions. The Volt is no more comparable to a Cruze Eco than a Lexus is to a Corolla.

· · 2 years ago

@anonymous
The problem with the Volt is that it is more economical to buy a Chevy Cruze Eco . . .
Unless, of course, you are not interested in a gas guzzler that gets its fuel economy by barely moving. Sure if you want a dumpy car, you can get any dumbed-down ICE econobox and save money.
However, if you really don't want to sacrifice performance but don't want to be beholden to gas prices, a Volt or other EV are the only options.
Why not just get an old beat-up horse or ride a bike instead of the Cruze Eco.
That 35% number you read excluded Prius owners.
I also don't know that many people who have replaced their Priuses. Most that I know are still driving them.

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