No word on the AER for the C-Max Energi yet correct? I'm hoping it's more than the PIP
Most Important Plug-in Hybrid Metric: MPG When Batteries Are Depleted
Ford C-Max Energi plug-in hybrid
In 2011, the Chevy Volt was the only plug-in hybrid on the market—but that’s going to change in 2012. The field of cars that combine grid-supplied electricity for a number of electric miles—with gas-powered energy to extend driving range—will expand with the introduction of the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid, Fisker Karma and Ford C-Max Energi. The statistic most cited for these cars is all-electric range (AER). But the standard by which consumers judge plug-in hybrids could be the efficiency of the vehicle when its batteries are depleted.
We reported more than a year ago that Ford was promising that the non-plug C-Max—a mini-hybrid-minivan would do better than 40 miles to the gallon. At that time, we also said Ford was targeting more than 40-mpg for the C-Max plug-in hybrid while in charge-sustaining mode—a fuel economy metric that beats the Chevy Volt’s.
Of course, the Volt has the competition beat for all-electric-range—about 37 miles without using any gasoline.
As Ford moves into production mode on its electric cars—and prepares for introductions in 2012—the company is standing firm on the C-Max Energi’s post-EV efficiency. “Once you deplete the battery, you’re in hybrid mode,” said Sherif Marakby, Ford’s director of electric vehicle development programs. “So, you’re driving the vehicle as a hybrid, still getting fuel economy over 40 miles per gallon, after you depleted the batteries.” (Hat tip to c-maxenergi.com for pointing this out in a Ford video from a recent press event.)
In one light, it’s great to have extra batteries to extend all-electric range to cover as much of your daily driving as possible. But the weight of those batteries becomes a partial penalty when it comes to efficiency after the juice runs out. The Fisker Karma has come under criticism for delivering just 20 miles per gallon post-electricity—due to its heavyweight classification at 5,300 pounds.
The Chevy Volt is rated at 37 miles per gallon in charge-sustaining mode. The Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid uses up its 15-or-so miles of grid-supplied energy much faster—but after that happens, it still gets nearly 50 mpg. So, after about 70 miles of driving, the Prius will end up using less gasoline than the Volt. You can push that out, I suppose, to an 80- or 90-mile crossover point when the C-Max Energi becomes more efficient than the Volt.
EV Miles, and Then Drive it "Like a Hybrid"
Advocates of a pure electric cars would ask this question: If you’re driving less than 70 or 80 miles nearly every day of the year, why not buy a LEAF or other pure battery-powered car rather than a plug-in hybrid, and keep all of those miles gas-free?
That provocative question notwithstanding, In the case of the plug-in Prius and the C-Max Energi, the mileage after the electric miles are used up is essentially the same as their non-plug hybrid counterparts. Those two vehicles have hybrid-like efficiency throughout the drive cycle.
We could debate the benefits and drawbacks of these vehicles regarding how far you can (or should) drive purely on electricity in a plug-in hybrid—and how much the AER matches a driver’s individual common commuting needs. But one thing is becoming clear: the efficiency of a plug-in hybrid while using gasoline is just as important as how far it can go only on its batteries.
About the author
Bradley Berman is the editor of PluginCars.com. Brad writes about alternative energy cars for The New York Times, Detroit Free Press, Reuters and other publications. He is quoted in national media outlets, such as CBS News, ABC News, CNBC, CBC, and MarketWatch. Mr. Berman is a tireless researcher of the green car market. He is the transportation editor at Home Power magazine.
Comments
· Tom Moloughney · 21 weeks ago
· Brad Berman · 21 weeks ago
Right, Tom. I haven't seen an announcement on AER or battery size. Any wagers? My guess is 6 kWh.
As a postscript to my posting: Of course, total overall efficiency is what counts--and using as little gasoline as possible (while satisfying your transportation requirements). Cost is the other factor. It's going to extremely interesting to have a choice of full EV (of different ranges); big battery PHEV; and small battery PHEV. Consumers can choose what fits their need, budget, and desire to avoid oil.
· Folsomev (not verified) · 21 weeks ago
We have a LEAF and a Volt. We normally use the Volt for local trips, but take longer (250 miles, typically) trips once or twice a month. Sometimes, not always, we're able to charge on these trips, especially if they are overnighters. Our Volt has about 11,500 miles on it, about 50/50 all electric and gas mode, and overall gas mileage is about 80 mpg. I've gone as long as 900 miles between fillups -- shooting for 1,000 miles. I really don't pay attention to gas mileage in gasoline mode. I could compute it, but the Volt cleverly does not present it as such. The Volt does prominently (and cleverly) present combined gas mileage. Bottom line is that I'm using much less gasoline than before, when all the long trips were made in a gas car. Now, if I get 40 mpg in gasoline mode, the 250-mile trip is only 170 or 210 miles on gasoline, so it's like my gas mileage is 59 or 48 mpg.
So, to me, the MPG when batteries are depleted is *not* the most important metric. The total gallons of gasoline used per year (say, per 12,000 miles in my case) is more important.
· Tom Moloughney · 21 weeks ago
If you are correct Brad it will probably have a slightly longer AER as the PIP. The PIP has a 4.4kW battery but is smaller and lighter. It will also depend on how much of the battery Ford decides to utilize. I remember reading somewhere that the PIP only uses about 3.7kw which would make sense with its 15 mile AER. If Ford used a 6kW battery and utilized 5kW of it, we'd probably see 18 miles or so of AER.
· tterbo · 21 weeks ago
So which number is the EPA going to quote on the window sticker, the battery MPG or the hybrid MPG?
Maybe they've already figured this one out. Like Battery, Hybrid, Combined Average.
· regman · 21 weeks ago
@tterbo
PHEVs list 4 numbers (among other information) on the label. The all electric MPGe, the gas (charge sustain mode) MPG, the electric range and the total range. For the Volt, the numbers are 93, 37, 35, and 379. If you google "Volt Label" you can find several posts of what a PHEV label looks like.
· Kei Jidosha (not verified) · 21 weeks ago
To me, the Hybrid ICE/Battery mixture is a trade-off with the Chevy Volt at one end (111kW), and the Audi A1 on the other (15kW). I don’t need an ICE that can climb Pikes Peak AND recharge the battery, I like Audi’s design where the ICE is just sufficient to sustain freeway speed and the battery accelerates and climbs. More AER per pound or "More electric than gas".
· theflew · 21 weeks ago
@Kei Jidosha,
I think you're mixing numbers. 111kW on the Volt is the output power on the main traction motor. The Volt's generator is capable of 55kW. The Audi A1 (concept mind you) has a 45 kW traction motor and a a15 kW generator. The Volt's generator can produce half the maximum power the traction motor needs with the remaining coming from the battery. The A1's generator can do 1/3 of the necessary power. If I had to pass or go up an incline for any length of time I know which car I would rather be in. Also the A1 is a mini car whereas the Volt is a compact, so 111kW vs 45kW can't be compared apples to apples.
· FamilyGuy · 21 weeks ago
You can't call either C-max offered in North America next year a mini-minivan if it maxes out the seating capacity at 5. I'm still somewhat bitter about that. I'm also, bitter about Ford no longer having plans to offer the traditional ICE C-max that would have been a mini-minivan.
Aside from my bitterness, I like the article. The marketing people can go and hype their best stat all day long. However, an educated consumer will be interested in all of the numbers, pure EV range, MPG in hybrid mode and price. If you know your driving patterns and you can pick the most appropriate vehicle.
I really like what Volvo is offering in the V60, you can pick your mode. If I'm getting on the highway right away and the hybrid mode is more efficient, I can pick that. Then switch over to EV once I'm off the highway where the pure battery is more efficient at city speeds. The V60 seems like it's going to priced well beyond my budget.
Bring on more options!
· ex-EV1 driver · 21 weeks ago
Brad,
I think you (and those who believe that MPG is important) are being snowed by the GM propaganda machine. Just because the dumb troglodytes in the ICE vehicle industry can understand and measure MPG after over 100 years of learning how, doesn't mean it is important.
Also, just because GM sabotaged the MPG on the Volt in order to try to convince the public that they should buy a Cruze eco instead of a Volt doesn't mean we, intelligent folks, need to buy in to their nonsense.
The most important thing about a PHEV is that it provides an option to travel without using petroleum. Otherwise, why spend the extra money for the electric drivetrain?
That means that most important metrics deal with:
How much can you do without petroleum?
- Can you drive on the freeway at freeway speeds?
- Can you perform all of your daily driving tasks?
- Can you perform all of your life's driving needs?
etc
This means that All-Electric-Range and All-Electric-Performance (speed and acceleration) are the important metrics. Cost is probably another.
The gasoline MPG is only a minor factor in the above but the Battery-electric performance is the dominant factor and, as such is the "Most Important Plug-in Hybrid Metric", not the mpg.
· Brad Berman · 21 weeks ago
@Ex - My ideal driveway would be my LEAF (or a similar/better pure EV), plus a four-wheel-drive larger plug-in hybrid for trips that push the limits of the EV's range. I want that future PHEV to have decent AER, but I would be willing to take a few less miles of all-electric range, in exchange for great overall fuel economy. That's for me. In terms of the broader market, plug-in hybrids will certainly have a place in the emerging green car market. Don't we want those cars to be efficient after the 15 - 35 miles of battery power is depleted? Doesn't keeping the battery relatively small mean a relatively lower price for those vehicles, and therefore putting more of them on the road? When comparing the PHEVs for a purchase, shouldn't the consumer look at least equally at AER and post-electric efficiency?
· Felix Kramer · 21 weeks ago
I agree with ex-EV1 driver and Folsomev. What they are both pointing to is somewhat obvious, but it maybe it needs to be restated: Customers for plug-in cars make their decisions based on the usual factors for ALL drivers: functionality, features, and cost, plus two others: their everyday driving patterns and occasional driving needs, and the availability of charging at home and at frequent destinations.
If you look at it this way, it's quite obvious that people who want the benefits of vehicle electrification will buy EVs as their second cars. For their first or if they have only car, they're most likely to consider a plug-in hybrid. And next year, with several models on the market, they'll match up their EV driving range with the right PHEV. The only reason someone who drives 15 miles a day (or 15 mile to a workplace with charging) would buy a longer-EV-range PHEV would be because they like the car for other reasons! Conversely, someone with a longer drive cycle who can't afford a 35-mile-rnage PHEV might decide to get a very efficient hybrid that doesn't plug in!
As for the specifics of MPG once a PHEV reverts to being a normal hybrid (what engineers call "charge-sustaining mode"), don't forget that Prius MPG improved significantly with each successive version. We can expect similar improvements in PHEVs as engineers who rushed to get the first models to market have a chance to optimize engine performance in later generations.
I love everything about PlugInCars.com EXCEPT the occasional flaming headline. The goal here is not to provoke controversy through the online equivalent of tabloid headlines that aim to increase newsstand sales, but to inform readers and promote dialogue.
For that reason, just as I was very glad author/publisher Brad Berman decided after reading comments to tone down the headline in "The Electric Car Fire We Feared and How GM is Botching Its Response" http://www.plugincars.com/electric-car-fire-we-feared-and-how-gm-botchin... to "Biggest Risk from Chevy Volt Fire: Undermining Consumer Confidence."
For this story, my suggestion for a more appropriate headline than "Most Important Plug-in Hybrid Metric: MPG When Batteries Are Depleted" could be " How Much Do Plug-In Car Buyers Care About MPG When Batteries Are Depleted?" Others may have better ideas!
· Brad Berman · 21 weeks ago
Good points, Felix. And good feedback regarding titles, which are tricky. As usual, I'm open to feedback from our thoughtful community.
· George Parrott (not verified) · 21 weeks ago
For us, we are OK with a full EV and range of 70+ miles, so our Leaf meets that need ....for now. ( I am lusting for the Tesla S, maybe even with the 85kW battery system.
But really for longer driving, our Volt is another OK design...for now. I would like maybe 50 miles EV range there, as in colder weather, my wife uses the full heating system and we are seeing more like 30 miles actual EV range. We ARE getting around 40 mpg in ICE mode, and this is also OK, but that 1.4l GM engine is no model of efficiency or state of the art technology. So I would really like to see maybe 50 or even 60 mpg freeway ICE function, and that seems like it could come from a 1.0l turbodiesel as a range extender.
We will "live with" our Leaf and Volt through their 2 year lease periods ending in January/Feb. of 2014, but we will be looking closesly then at the Tesla S for full EV function or maybe the BMW i3 or ??? and then HOPING that there really are better total "efficiency packages" of EV + ICE that are comfortable for road trips and still achieve at LEAST 50 mpg with that ICE in operation.
· EVNow · 21 weeks ago
It is an interesting topic.
MPG in CS mode & AER. If there is a trade off to be made, what would I prefer.
I'd want my commute to be in EV mode. So, in my case we are looking at about 20 miles. Ofcourse you want the MPG to be as much as possible. Volt would meet that criteria.
Now between a 20 mile AER + 40 MPG vehicle vs 37 mile AER + 37 MPG vehicle, I'd prefer the latter because I think the total gas usage in the latter case would be lower.
BTW, C-Max Energi will have a higher AER than PIP. It is there somewhere in that presentation. Also, Ford says Energi will have better MPGe than PIP. Given the PIP has better MPG in CS mode, this is possible only if Energi has better AER than PIP.
Another hint (i've blogged it earlier) is that Energi will take 3 hours to recharge. That puts the battery around 10 kWh. So, I had speculated that Energi will have an AER of around 30 miles. It is possible the battery is a little smaller and the AER close to 20, rather than 30.
· Dave - Phoenix (not verified) · 21 weeks ago
MPG after battery depletion is NOT an absolute "most important" factor with plug in hybrids... In fact it is "rarely" the most important factor for most drivers.
It depends on the EV range, and the owner's driving habits how important the "MPG after battery depletion" is.....
If the vehicle has only 13 miles of EV range and the owner drives well over 13 miles daily, the battery will be depleted on a regular basis. In that case. YES, MPG after the battery depletion is very important.
If the vehicle has 40 miles of EV range and the owners rarely drives beyond 40 miles on a daily basis the answer is NO. MPG after battery depletion is not that important metric.
Once again, there is no single measuring stick for plug in hybrids.
· regman · 21 weeks ago
@Felix
"If you look at it this way, it's quite obvious that people who want the benefits of vehicle electrification will buy EVs as their second cars. For their first or if they have only car, they're most likely to consider a plug-in hybrid."
This statement is, in my opinion, just why most people that look at PHEVs will be looking for the CS MPG. If the PHEV is their second car, (with an BEV as their first) they are probably looking for something that they will be driving past the AER and therefore need good CS MPG. If they only have one vehicle and choose a PHEV, they will probably be contemplating both the AER and CS MPG but since the average number of miles driven per day by in the US is between 30 and 40 miles, the average person will be getting into CS mode every day with today's PHEV options, some of them significantly into the gas. Where I live, the average commute to work is over 25 miles one way (I live in a metro area that is extremely spread out). Other areas may have mountains which tax the AER and the electric only performance. Drivers with these conditions will be looking at the CS MPG.
I know those purists like Ex and somewhat you and Darell want everyone to jump in head first into the world of pure electric, but most need to wade in and we in the pro xEV world have to make the water as warm as possible until they get comfortable with pure EV driving.
I would go as far as saying the Most Important Plug-in Hybrid Metric TO SOME: MPG When Batteries Are Depleted. There will be those that can get by most of the time in EV mode and will primarily look at the AER. But unfortunately, customers aren't as smart as they think they are, and anyone that realizes they will be driving into CS mode on a regular basis may be drawn to the CS MPG number on the label as most important because they are familiar with this number.
· ex-EV1 driver · 21 weeks ago
@Brad,
When I say AER and All Electric Performance (AEP) are the most important metrics, I'm not saying that more is better. AER and AEP must meet the purchaser's normal needs for however the purchaser defines "normal".
Since each purchaser will have a different need, the market will have to figure out how much AER and AEP meet some amount that meets the needs of many without incurring too much cost from of those whose needs are exceeded.
I also agree with Felix that you appear to have fired for effect with your headlines, probably just to get reactions. Clearly: it worked :-)
· ex-EV1 driver · 21 weeks ago
@regman,
I'm not that much of a purist. I actually would prefer a small ICE on my EV today, when gasoline infrastructure is so prevalent and EV charging is sparse and slow.
Unfortunately, however, as we've seen, adding an ICE makes it a lot more expensive than just a simple EV.
· Priusmaniac (not verified) · 21 weeks ago
In my impression the availability of a Flex-Fuel engine on the Volt is a more important criteria then the mpg in charge sustain mode. Indeed a flex-fuel engine allow the prospect of driving close to zero fossil CO2 emissions, while this is not possible if you are still forced to use gasoline on the longer trips. Mpg overall or mpg in CS mode is not especially what counts but more the fossil CO2 per mile emissions. If you drive in EV mode you can get to zero, if you drive with E100 you can also get close to zero whatever your mpg. This is not possible with gasoline as fuel for the engine even with a good mpg.
· Laurent J. Masson · 21 weeks ago
Range in EV mode is equally important. With the Prius getting a short 15-mile range in EV mode, getting fuel economy after that really matters. It's less important on a Volt which can drive 40 miles, and it would matter even less if someone could come up with a PHEV with a 60 miles range on its battery.
But I don't see anyone working on that. In Europe, a 50 km (31 miles) seem to be the goal.
· Brian Schwerdt · 21 weeks ago
I agree with the general consensus that the "most important" factor depends on the user. However, since as regman put it, "customers aren't as smart as they think they are", the CS MPG may be the most important number on the sticker. In my case, it would be since a PHEV would be to complement my LEAF (which will be my primary vehicle, btw). The PIP would work great for me because I'm either taking it on a 2-mile commute or a 300-mile road trip. However, a Volt works much better for my friend who has only one car, a longer commute, and frequently travels downtown (about 25-30 miles round-trip). He never burns gas until he travels out of state to visit his parents.
· regman · 21 weeks ago
@ex-EV1 driver,
"Unfortunately, however, as we've seen, adding an ICE makes it a lot more expensive than just a simple EV."
I disagree. The primary reason to add an ICE to plug in is to get range. A 100 mile EV has about 25 kWh of battery. To get to 300, you need to add about 50 more kWh. Even at $500/kWh, this is still $25,000. To get the same range extension using an ICE would add significantly less $s (probably less than $10,000).
· regman · 21 weeks ago
@Brian,
I was going to add this to my previous post but it was getting too long.
The metric that I would like to see on the label is the MPGe at different ranges (maybe in a chart form) that considers the electric MPGe for the AER portion and calculates in the CS MPG for the remainder. For example, the Volt at 93 MPGe electric, 37 MPG CS and 35 miles AER would show 93 MPGe at 10 miles, 93 at 20, 93 at 30, 78 at 40, 64 at 50, 57 at 60, 50 at 80, 47 at 100, 43 at 150, 41 at 200 and 40 at 300.
By comparing the charts for the different vehicles, you can find the cross over points for the various PHEVs to find out what vehicle best meets your driving style.
· EVNow · 21 weeks ago
@regman · "The primary reason to add an ICE to plug in is to get range."
The conventional wisdom has been that PHEVs will be more readily accepted in the market - because of no range anxiety. But, since PHEVs, as seen in Volt & then PIP are expensive, EVs are outselling them (even with greater demand-supply gap).
So, atleast in the early adopter market, we should question that conventional wisdom.
Most people already have 2 ICE cars. All they would do is to replace one of the ICE with an EV and use the appropriate vehicle for the trip they are making. So, PHEV could become the second car - after getting an EV - rather than the first plugin of the house.
· Brian Schwerdt · 21 weeks ago
@regman
I agree, such a list would be great. As an engineer, I would prefer to just see it graphed out, but I don't know how well that will go over with the general public. Most people want to summarize in as few numbers as possible (i.e. two - MPGe and MPG). Trouble is, you cannot paint the whole picture that way. I worry that a lot of people will just walk away.
· EVNow · 21 weeks ago
I think MPGe is a useless figure that only interests some nerds in EPA.
What consumers want to see is
- # of gallons of gas consumed in various trips
- Total cost of trip (electricity+gas)
Converting energy content of electricity to gallons of gasoline and adding that up with actual gallons of gas used in a trip is beyond useless for consumers.
· Ken Fry · 21 weeks ago
When I talk with people about the Zing! their eyes light up for various reasons: the way it looks, its mileage on gasoline alone, its mileage per kilowatt hour, its cost per mile on electricity, its range on electricity, its efficiency independent of gas vs electric issues etc. There is no single metric that is most important.
I think may people will overlook the Volt's mediocre performance on gasoline to get its other features.
· Ken Fry · 21 weeks ago
Hi Ex EV1,
You wrote:
"Unfortunately, however, as we've seen, adding an ICE makes it a lot more expensive than just a simple EV."
This can be true, but does not have to be: Most cars are not priced according to their manufacturing costs.
The Zing! will be available in a straight EV version, but it must cost more and will be less efficient (than the PHEVs I'll make in 2012) because it will be heavier. This is true even to go to just 100 mile range. (The picture gets much worse for 150 or 200 mile range.) The engine/generator on the POC is 49 lb. The 35-mile-range batteries are 88 lb. Tripling this to provide 105 mile range would add 176 lbs. Subtract the genset, for a net gain of 127 lb. In the POC, this is a 23% increase in empty weight. These numbers do not apply to the production version (which is bigger and heavier) but the principal is the same.
The Zing does not have direct engine-to-wheels drive to avoid the associated complexity, weight, cost, and maintenance issues. Chevy had planned to avoid direct drive as well, but decided they needed the extra 15% efficiency in CS mode. Had I worked for them, I would have pushed for a smaller more efficient engine, instead of more weight and complexity. Then the battery pack could be smaller, the tires and brakes could be smaller ... and on and on. Before you know it, you have something competitive with the Prius in terms of gasoline mileage) but simpler.
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Common sense tells me that a plug-in hybrid is the ideal vehicle for someone who drives less than the AER on most days but they sometimes need additional range on days that are not typical. There is popular website for Volt fans that I read on an almost daily basis. It seems that typical Volt drivers make an effort to use the ice as little as possible. Knowing the behavior of typical Volt owners it appears that fuel efficiency in CS mode is important but not as important as AER.