Mini Moves Beyond EV "Experiment"

· Michael Coates · 1 year ago

BMW's Mini brand was used to market the company's first electric vehicle (450 total) in what the company called an "research phase" project. According to MINIUSA VP of Marketing Jim McDowell, speaking to a group of automotive journalists, "the Mini-E was a great experiment," but he put special emphasis on the "experiment" side of the description, saying the company had no other electric applications planned. Its parent BMW is moving to the Active-E 1-Series model next and also is committed to producing its Megacity electric car "in several years." McDowell said that they learned with the Mini-E that a bigger vehicle is needed to be a functional EV. When Mini created the Mini-E the added electric components and batteries used the original vehicle's rear seat, leaving it as a two-seat car with limited storage space. "You need space for groceries," McDowell said.

McDowell also told the audience that they "shouldn't wait for a hybrid" Mini. He said the added weight that comes with a hybrid system literally outweighed the fuel economy benefits of the technology.

On diesels, McDowell had a different story. "I'd love to have a Mini diesel," he added. The problem he faces is the current European diesel engine won't meet California's strict emissions, so they are working on a new emissions-compliant diesel for the next generation Mini.

Comments

· Yegor · 1 year ago

I think that electric cars should be originally design to be on a dedicated platform. I think that the batteries should go to the front of a car so no high voltage wires go through the passenger area - so there will be no electromagnetic radiation in the passenger area.

· Zach McDonald · 1 year ago

I suppose this means that the Mini-E will take its place in the test fleet hall of fame. According to all of the reports, those who got to drive the E for the past year paid through the nose ($850 a month as opposed to the standard Cooper's $200 a month lease) but loved every minute of it. Most opted to extend the lease for an extra year.

But I guess Mini couldn't make the numbers work. I believe the entire company sells less cars every year in the United States than the Leaf plans to in 2012, and I'd imagine that they couldn't build these in the scale that would have been necessary to bring the price tag down into a reasonable range.

I'm curious about what kind of mileage they could get out of these cars if they went TDI.

· Anonymous · 1 year ago

BMW is as committed to EV's as GM was to the EV-1. It's little more than a diversion. Nissan is going to make money. It's all about mass production. If Mini had EV's for sale with a price based on real volume, they would sell. BMW won't even let the returned Mini-e's back out the door. It's all about California air credits...

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

BMW confirmed what people really want in an EV. Now, with the lame Active E-1, they will ensure they never actually offer what they want.

· Tom M. (not verified) · 1 year ago

The MINI-E was never meant to go to production, it's not like they just decided that or they couldn't make the numbers work. The ActiveE isn't going to production either. It will be powered by the drivetrain that will be in the 2013 Megacity vehicle and will be much more important to BMW than the MINI-E was. The MINI-E was a CARB credit grab, BMW never disputed or denied that. They played the rules, like the Yankees do by buying all the best players. It's wrong, but that's the rules. However if anyone thinks BMW isn't committed to EV's they are mistaken. They are developing an entire division devoted to EV's which will see the first vehicle on the road in 2013. Some aren't happy with the pace BMW is taking, and that's fair but they are going at very deliberate pace for many reasons, not the least of which to really understand what the consumer wants in an EV. Electric cars are such a radical departure from the auto industries comfort zone it would be foolish to rush into it and produce a car that may not be ready for prime time.

I give Nissan a lot of credit for bringing the LEAF to us, but is it ready? Why no thermal management system? Why only 24kwh? Why only a 3.3kwh slow onboard charger? Why advertise 100 mile range when we know it won't get more than 80 even in ideal conditions and probably 40-55 in cold temperatures at highway speeds?

I support Nissan all the way for taking this chance but I also applaud BMW for taking their time to make sure they get it right.

· Stoaty (not verified) · 1 year ago

> Why advertise 100 mile range when we know it won't get more than 80 even in ideal conditions and probably 40-55 in cold temperatures at highway speeds?

According to the latest info from LEAF, the mileage will range from 47-138, depending on speed, temperature, use of AC/heat, etc. By those criteria, I would say the LEAF will get over 100 miles in ideal conditions. The question is rather how close to ideal conditions will you be driving in. For those of us on the West Coast, near the ocean, we may very well be driving in close to ideal conditions for a good part of the year.

· Tom M. (not verified) · 1 year ago

The Leaf has a 24kwh pack and achieved a 100 mile range using the EPA LA4 cycle. For comparison, the MINI-E (which I have been driving for 13 months now) has a 35kwh pack and achieved a 156 range using the exact same LA4 cycle. The MINI's 156 mile range shrunk to an average of 85-105 miles in warm weather conditions. In cold weather (under 30 degrees) the car averages between 60 and 80 miles per charge and some have claimed they only get about 55 MPC in those conditions. So in good conditions the MINI-E gets about 65% of the range that it got using the unrealistic LA4 cycle and only 50% in cold weather.
The Leafs pack is 68% the size of the MINI-E and the 100 mile LA4 range is 64% of the MINI's 156 miles. This further points to the assumption that the Leaf will get roughly 65% to 70% of the claimed 100 mile LA4 tested range. Of course if you hypermile or drive extremely slow you might be able to get closer to the 100 mile range. Another telling fact is that if you go to the Nissan site to pre order they ask you how many miles you drive in any given day. If you enter more than 70 miles, there is a pop up that says " The Nissan LEAF might not be the right car for you" and then tells you to look at Nissan's other gasoline cars that will better suit your needs.
I like the Leaf and hope it does well but there is NO WAY that car will take the average person more than 80 miles per charge, period.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 1 year ago

It's not perfect, but we love our MINI E and don't want to give it back!

· Michael Coates · 1 year ago

If BMW has the Megacity car available by the time the MINI-E lease is up, I think you'll be willing to trade up.

· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago

Michael, I agree but unfortunately it will not be ready yet. Mid 2013 is when the Megacity is projected to launch.

Here in the States, we will all be turning in our MINI-E's in June, although it's possible that BMW could extend the offer a few months until the ActiveE program begins. The ActiveE program will be similar to the MINI-E but it will be testing the actual hardware that will end up in the car that has been been given the megacity codename(that will not be the actual name of the car).

I really love my MINI-E but now that it's winter again I am reminded how much EV's really need active thermal management. It has been an unusually cold December and my range is really taking a beating. The MINI-E primitive passive thermal management simply cannot deal with sub-30 degree temperatures. To make matters worse the car doesn't allow you to pre-condition while you are still plugged into the grid, something that the ActiveE and megacity will allow. On days where it's been in the teens I'm only getting about 60 miles per charge, down from about 110.

I will definitely miss the minimalist spirit of the MINI-E when I turn it in, but I am really anxious to see how well the BMW engineers designed the thermal management system. (Plus it will be nice to have back seats and a trunk) For the megacity to be a success I think they have to manage to keep the cold weather range at no less than 80% of what the car gets in optimal conditions. People don't want to have to look at the thermometer every morning to figure out how far they can drive that day .

· Michael Coates · 1 year ago

Tom,
Good points all. Timing is everything, but the auto industry by design moves slowly. When you rush things, you end up with compromises like the MINI-E with all of the drawbacks you so eloquently describe. Many folks don't seem to understand this, but the methodical approach BMW is taking should deliver a car in 2013 that is every bit as exciting to drive as the MINI-E but with far more practicality.

Also, it's easier to find a couple hundred people to overpay for a unique experiment like the MINI-E than the thousands needed to make the Megacity a true success.

Michael

· Kels (not verified) · 1 year ago

BMW's Mini has good market name. People refer it as brand. Recent Mini Savile Row is very famous model it is only made for the Japaneses market and only 100 models were their.

· Michael Coates · 44 weeks ago

@amir The Mini-E (or any EV for that matter), is not a long-distance car. If you travel distances and value efficiency, as diesel is the way to do.
@bhajay As I said above, EVs and diesels are two different approaches to transportation, that each have their own appeal. If you're truly concerned about EMR, an EV is just the biggest example, but a typical modern life is full of devices with EMR, from you cell phone to your laptop. As you note, EVs are finding their way into a variety of niche markets, including up to delivery vehicles. The economics are a little sketchy, but they will work.

· cody felton (not verified) · 35 weeks ago

Hi Michael! Your post is very interesting! If it's a success creating a BMW electric car, then it would be a good news. Since it could conserve energy and the vehicle would be environment-friendly. But anyway, any update about this project?

Cody Felton

· Michael Coates · 35 weeks ago

@cody felton The BMW eMobility project is moving forward. They are bringing several hundred 1-Series Active-E EVs to the US to lease this year as they test the powertrain that will be in their i3 model that comes in 2013. Keep in mind they intend this to be a premium EV, so I would expect their pricing to not be as aggressive as Nissan's, for instance, with the Leaf. On the other hand, it will be a BMW!

· maria daniels (not verified) · 33 weeks ago

Very interesting Michael. Do you have any idea on the price of the BMW cars that they would lease? I'm excited to this news. Do they have this already for 2011? I can't wait for 2013 though. I really love BMWs.

· Tom Moloughney · 33 weeks ago

Maria: the BMW ActiveE will be available in a few months for a 2 year lease. It's $499/month with $2,250 down, but you could put more or less down to change the monthly payment if you prefer and are approved.

They are only available in New York Metro, greater Los Angeles, San Diego, San Francisco, Sacramento or Boston areas so you would need to live in one of those markets to apply. They are not taking applications yet, but I expect them to open it up some time in July or early August. You can sign up for updates at the BMW ActiveE site here: http://www.bmwusa.com/ActiveE

· michporter · 31 weeks ago

BMW's mini may have better handling, improved fuel economy and interior design, but it has cramped rear legroom. However, BMW proves (again) that great things come in small packages. :-)

Michelle @ Intel x25-m

· Tom Moloughney · 31 weeks ago

Michelle: The MINI we are talking about here is the MINI-E which has no back seat at all. It was replaced by 35kWh of lithium ion batteries.

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Mini Moves Beyond EV "Experiment"

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