Fuel Cell Vehicles and EVs: More Alike Than Not

By John Gartner · May 23, 2011

For the last few decades, the interest level in (and DOE funding for) FCVs and EVs has had somewhat of an inverse correlation, with one rising while the other falls. Most conversations and development efforts have focused on one vehicle architecture or the other, not both. But taking a view from above, these two platforms are more alike in form and function than they are different.

15 years ago (during the Clinton administration) EV development and interest was progressing more rapidly. Then after California backed off on requiring zero emission vehicles and the George W. Bush administration took over, Fuel Cells were prioritized. EVs and the rest of the plug-in vehicle family are getting more attention today, though FCVs continue to fight for respect. But the worlds are converging and the automotive industry would likely benefit if the research and advocacy groups dropped their swords and worked in parallel.

Mercedes-Benz, with its E-Cell and F-Cell programs, is among the OEMs that appear to be centralizing efforts in making FCVs and PEVs as complementary platforms that can extensively share technology. The architectures are alike in that all battery electric vehicles and FCVs solely use electricity to provide propulsion. While EVs solely use batteries to provide power for locomotion, FCVs use fuel cells in conjunction with batteries (or ultracapacitors) for propulsion power and energy storage. Both vehicles do not directly generate emissions, and many of the secondary vehicle systems use the same or similar electronic components.

A look at a BEV and FCV in development by Mercedes-Benz shows that these vehicles are really apples from the same family tree:

The fuel cells biggest advantage today is that it has nearly double the driving range, and the fuel cell/battery combination delivers more power and greater acceleration than the batteries alone. BEVs today are being sold commercially in greater numbers and also have the advantage of a growing public charging infrastructure that far surpasses the hydrogen refueling infrastructure (at least beyond Southern California).

As my erudite colleague has pointed out, combining the technologies into a range extended FCV makes sense on many levels and our conversations with OEMs indicate that they are kicking the tires on the idea. Mercedes-Benz (with its BlueZero platform), GM, and Ford all see benefits in creating flexible platforms where drivetrain architectures can be mixed and matched like Garanimals. When only electricity is used for propulsion, components such as electric motors et. al. can be leveraged most effectively.

About the author

· John Gartner

John Gartner is Senior Analyst at PIke Research and editor-in-chief of Matter Network. He has been covering computer, Internet, and sustainable technologies for more than 20 years. He was an editor at Wired News and at TechTV, launched several websites for the TechWeb network, and has written for publications ...

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Comments

· Cranky Old Man (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

I know as little about this as anyone so I’ll start the ball rolling, hoping that someone who actually knows what they are talking about will jump in. Being scientifically illiterate, I fell for the whole hydrogen economy hoax hook, line and sinker. But after having it explained to me 18 or so times I think I got it. Even if all the technical problems associated with developing a hydrogen infrastructure could be solved and the whole thing funded, the idea still stinks. Every time you convert energy from one form to another, you lose some. Why not just concentrate on developing battery technology so you can just store energy directly? If I recall correctly, the European Union gave up on funding research for fuel cell-powered cars in recognition of the fact that they probably weren’t going to find a way around the laws of thermodynamics.

The main stream media magic show featured an MIT professor who apparently found a way to cheaply generate hydrogen that could be used in fuel cells. What he didn’t find was a way to store and transport that hydrogen. And the last time I checked fuel cells were still orders of magnitude more expensive than batteries.

We need to face the facts. There is (or was) nothing like oil. It is too bad we used it up so stupidly and needlessly. Why not just get on with something we know how to do, BEVs? The transition is going to be tough enough. After it is finished, we can resume the search for a magic hydrogen bullet to replace the oil we so stupidly squandered.

· ex-EV1 driver · 51 weeks ago

Sure, the OEMs "are kicking the tires on the idea" of FCVs. They know that they aren't going to threaten their ICE business in their lifetime. All the BEVs need to be dumbed down and put into cars that the OEMs don't care about in order to be sure they don't take away from their beloved ICE sales.
I hope that this time, with lots of EVs in private hands, the FCV won't be able to able to hurt the EVs again.

· Travisty · 51 weeks ago

I'll paraphrase Thomas Edison:
"We will make" fusion "electricity so cheap that only the rich will" drive ICE cars.

Honestly I don't see much of a future for hydrogen outside of large transport (18 wheelers and the like). Hydrogen is increadibly difficult to store and very inefficient to make - the best is electrolisist which takes 2 atoms of water, adds a ton of energy, and gets 2x H2 and O2.

· Travisty · 51 weeks ago

Wish there was an edit button.... You can also get Hydrogen from any hydrocarbon chain. I reject this idea though because all you're doing is burning fossel fuels to get the hydrogen. ICE is less than 30% efficient with the burning of gas. Now add in trapping the hydrogen and then storing it. You'd probably be lucky for get over 5% effeciency. You might make up for it with generating power from the heat of burning the fuel but you're still emitting green house gases.

EV all the way!

· NeilBlanchard · 51 weeks ago

How long do fuel cells last? How much do they cost? How big of a battery could be put in the car if the fuel cell and it's bulky hydrogen tank and protective structure were not in the car -- and how much less would the car cost? What are the costs per mile of hydrogen vs electricity? What is the carbon footprint of each?

To my thinking, hydrogen is just a way to keep us dependent on large energy companies.

Unless this becomes common, then I think hydrogen should be left on the shelf:

http://www.sciencefriday.com/program/archives/201104081

Neil

· Tom Moloughney · 51 weeks ago

This is a couple years old, but definitely worth reading about hydrogen as a fuel for transportation:
http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax

· George Parrott (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

Anybody in the 50 mile or so range of W. Sacramento should check out the California Fuel Cell Partnership website and reserve a spot at one of the end of the month open houses (usually last Friday of the month?).

You can get a very nice lecture and slide show of the whole fuel cell technology with someone to actually answer questions AND THEN....

You are taken out back to their parking lot, and you get to drive a number of their test fleet fuel cell vehicles around that parking lot only (darn !).

I am doubtful about the near term shakeout of fuel cell vehicle power, but these are really only different source for electric drive cars power. Work on battery EVs and fuel cell powered cars is totally complimentary as both are using the same actual motive system, but each gets that electric power from a different reserve.

The extremely, repeat EXTREMELY high pressure required for storage of hydrogen in the ultimate volume to actually power a vehicle for 200 or 300 miles is a major "sticking point" in my mind for fuel cell development. The safety issue for this storage system is and will be crucial.

While hydrogen is a widely available element, it is still difficult to concentrate and purify, and the power demanded for this concentration process needs to be factored in to the final greenness of the vehicle power.

Somewhere in this fuel cell equation and clearly present in the direct battery power process, IMHO, must be factored Solar and Wind generation of electricity to charge those batteries and/or power the concentration and generation process for hydrogen.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

The problem with electric cars is grid instability and BEV further destabilizes the grid. We have ups (backup) systems for critical/life safety equipment because the grid is by its nature unstable. Ice storms, tornadoes, hurricanes, as examples, take the grid down when transportation is needed most. Houston's grid was down 2 - 3 weeks and then there's New Orleans, and all the tornadoes in the mid-west. Fuel cell vehicles add reliability to the grid; cars could backup homes; telephone trucks backup cell towers; fire trucks municiple water pumps, fuel trucks fueling stations; etc.,

· Cranky Old Man (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

Fuel cells are just a form of energy storage – and from the reference Tom posted, http://www.thenewatlantis.com/publications/the-hydrogen-hoax, and every other credible source I’ve seen an extremely inefficient one! They are a far-out technology that just doesn’t make sense from the perspective of basic laws governing the physical universe. There is a far simpler solution to the problem of energy storage than hydrogen / fuel cell technology, a solution that has been in operation almost as long as the power grid – pumped storage.
Pumped storage is basically man-made hydroelectricity. For those who believe the lack of water in locations like the Arizona desert is a show-stopper (there are at least two pumped storage facilities in operation east of Phoenix), there are variations using compressed air. The compressed air variety may not reach this but for traditional water-based pumped storage I’ve read conversion efficiency estimates ranging from 80 – 95%; and the power is available almost instantaneously.
Assuming an environmentally sustainable battery technology can be developed with equivalent costs and efficiencies – an assumption that may be a requirement if EVs are to replace ICE-powered transportation, I would probably side with most people on this list-server in proposing, what’s the acronym for car battery to grid?, since it has to be done anyway. But if it can’t and we are just talking grid stabilization and energy storage, what about the old-fashioned water tank on a neighborhood basis? The ICE has screwed up nature’s provision of pumped storage by arranging for the early melt of snow packs. But the water is still there. If you don’t believe it, come to Arizona and watch the runoff during the summer monsoons. (don’t stand in the washes unless you are a CEO of a major oil company).

· Cranky Old Man (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

I am going to answer my own question about neighborhood water tanks (but would appreciate being told I'm wrong) - not enough vertical fall. On to plan B... To deal with the problem of evaporation during the summer in the AZ desert, someone from the Raccoon Mountain Pumped-Storage Plant suggested covering the reservoirs, possibly using some kind of barge-like ‘boat’. Take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumped-storage_hydroelectricity. If you do, you will find I overstated the upper range efficiency figure by 5%. Here is a little sampler from the article:
Taking into account evaporation losses from the exposed water surface and conversion losses, approximately 70% to 85% of the electrical energy used to pump the water into the elevated reservoir can be regained.[1] The technique is currently the most cost-effective means of storing large amounts of electrical energy on an operating basis, but capital costs and the presence of appropriate geography are critical decision factors.
The relatively low energy density of pumped storage systems requires either a very large body of water or a large variation in height. For example, 1000 kilograms of water (1 cubic meter) at the top of a 100 meter tower has a potential energy of about 0.272 kW•h …

· dgpcolorado · 51 weeks ago

@Anonymous, Grid instability? The electric power in my area hasn't been down for more than a half hour for so many years I can't remember the last time it happened. A decade ago? If I were really concerned about it I would arrange to draw power directly from my solar panels.

As for the disaster scenario you present, consider that if the power is out one can't pump gasoline or generate or compress hydrogen. The idea of using fuel cell vehicles as a backup in an extended power outage due to disaster is pretty bizarre; where are you going to get the fuel for the FCV?

· Cranky Old Man (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

Sorry. I AM math challenged - but also too lazy to go back and read what I'd written. I'm going to stick with the 5% correction because I seem to recall a higher high estimate from another source (can't remember where). But it looks like I should have dropped the low-end efficiency estimate by 10% as well.

· EVNow · 51 weeks ago

John Gartner,

You have missed the most important difference between FCVs and BEVs.

If you start with the same amount of electricity, you get 3 times the range in BEVs compared to FCVs. Yes, BEVs are 3 times more efficient than FCVs - once you account for energy needed to convert water into hydrogen, cool it etc.

In the future where we will be challenged to get enough clean electricity, do we want to spend 3 times the electricity to move around ? I don't think so ...

· ffinder (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

The No.1 problem with hydrocars is:

HOW MUCH A FUEL CELL CAR WILL COST?

The Honda FCX Clarity is between $120,000 and $140,000 per vehicle.
In 5 years it will take a miracle to lower the price below $60,000

Now compare this with Better Place Renault Fluence Z.E. in Israel..

At the basic price of NIS 122,900 Better Place Renault Fluence Z.E.will be cheaper than a gasoline Honda Civic at NIS 134,000.

Here's Honda prices in Israel:

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=iw&u=http://www.honda.co....

Add to that the taxes in Israel and the difference between gasoline and Better Place e-cars becomes huge.. Car taxes in Israel: 10% on electrics and 90% on petrol cars..

· Jukka Kukkonen · 51 weeks ago

@Anonymous. Here is a story about EVs and a disaster: http://www.nytimes.com/2011/05/08/automobiles/08JAPAN.html?_r=2&emc=eta1

· Benjamin Nead · 51 weeks ago

Cranky Old Man said . . . "I fell for the whole hydrogen economy hoax hook, line and
sinker . . . "

This is where I was back around 2003 or so, Cranky. I think it was a Scientific American magazine article from around late 2002 that got me behind it originally. But it was the "Who Killed The Electric Car?" movie of 2006 that motivated me to make a fundamental re-examination of the whole thing. Interesting, I've been hearing more about HFC in recent months than I have in years, just as EVs are starting to roll out commercially. Hmmm . . .

That New York Times article, Jukka, is a real eye-opener. One can imagine off-grid versions of those solar carport canopies shown in your article here a few days ago being deployed along with EVs in disaster areas.

· Jukka Kukkonen · 51 weeks ago

Benjamin, you make an excellent point about the off-grid solar canopies. Those units are pretty easy to set up, so that would make a lot of sense. That is what I call "Freedom factor". You can produce electricity any way you want.

· Priusmaniac (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

We had another article recently on the fuel cells. My conclusion was that as a range extender it may have sense but only with a more convenient fuel like bioethanol not with hydrogen or something that has to be turned into hydrogen first. Of course if there is something like a direct gasoline fuel cell that would also be possible, but to my knowledge direct ethanol fuel cell is the best available. There is also the fact that it doesn’t make much sense to make research today on something that basically rely on fossil fuels like gasoline or Hydrogen does.

· jim1961 (not verified) · 51 weeks ago

The following link illustrates why hydrogen is doomed as a fuel in an easy to understand graphic. http://www.physorg.com/news85074285.html

· Andrea Fox (not verified) · 28 weeks ago

If we could just find a more productive way to isolate the hydrogen from natural compounds, we could improve mileage and make Hydrogen the staple fuel for our cars.

storage

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Fuel Cell Vehicles and EVs: More Alike Than Not

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