I hope they do well, and sell a lot of cars. I saw a prototype in person, and it is definitely an attention getter.
Fisker Karma Plug-in Sports Car Is Arriving, Really
Investor Ray Lane celebrates receipt of his Fisker Karma.
One glance at the sleek design of the Fisker Karma plug-in hybrid vehicle is enough to stir excitement in the potential of electric drive technology. That’s why it’s been disappointing to see the company fall behind on promised delivery dates. Although we have yet to see the 400-horsepower Karma get fully put through its paces by professional journalists, there is mounting evidence that sales will begin in earnest—for real, this time—in September.
In late July, the company handed keys to production models to venture capitalist Ray Lane—an investor in Karma—as well as Leonardo DiCaprio, Al Gore, and Colin Powell, according to some reports on the web. (The company has not yet announced that the California Air Resources Board and the U.S. Environmental Protection Agency has officially certified the Karma, and thus allowing these first owners to legally hit the road.)
The latest sign of an imminent official launch comes from the LAcarGUY, a Southern California dealership group. The LAcarGUY, a Fisker dealer and “the world’s biggest seller of hybrids,” earlier this month posted videos from a special event held for Fisker deposit-holders.
The “test drive” video is pure promotion, but reveals a good look at the Karma, including these details:
- In stealth mode, the vehicle operates as a pure electric car, strictly delivering power from the batteries to the rear wheels. When switched into Sport mode, the car’s four-cylinder turbocharged engine supplies energy to the 22-kWh battery pack.
- The Karma comes with custom-designed 22-inch wheels.
- There are no gears and no shifting. The linear acceleration delivers 980 foot-pounds of torque, and propulsion up to 125 miles per hour.
- Front-seat passengers can peak at the battery pack through a plexiglass window in the center tunnel.
Also, earlier this month, Fisker announced that EV Connect will be the exclusive provider of charging equipment for the Fisker Karma. EV Connect will install Level 2 220-volt home or workplace charging for Karma owners for about $1,500, aiming to complete installations with a turnaround time of 14 days. So, it appears that charging infrastructure is also in place for the first customers. In one sense, this would not have been a hold-up for new owners because the Fisker Karma has a gas engine on board to supplement the 50 or so miles of all-electric range.
While the nuances of plug-in hybrid technology are mostly lost on the public, General Motors got into trouble last year when it was revealed that its plug-in hybrid, the Chevy Volt, under some circumstances is capable of linking the gas engine to its wheels—in the name of efficiency. On the other hand, Fisker Automotive is emphatically stating that there are absolutely no mechanical linkages between gas power and wheels. Electricity and only electricity will turn the wheels.
In the end, these distinctions matter less than production and actual delivery of a powerful—albeit expensive—new plug-in option for consumers. When we see the Fisker Karma in the open on the road, and appearing in media road tests, an important product milestone can be checked off as complete, and attention can turn to Fisker Automotive’s promises for an entire product line.
The rumor mill has it that Fisker will unveil an SUV version of the Karma next month at the Frankfurt motor show—and that it will go on sale as early as 2012. A hardtop convertible version of the Karma, along with the debut of a second more affordable model line know now only as “Nina,” could follow in 2013. Four-wheel and two-speed variants are also reportedly in the works.
Comments
· Michael · 27 weeks ago
· Henrik2 (not verified) · 27 weeks ago
The Karma’s EPA rating will be interesting so that we can compare it with other cars, in particular, the Volt, the Leaf and the Prius. The Frankfurt show will probably be the place where these numbers are revealed.
@Indiflick
You are right about scale in the autoindustry. However, both Fisker and Tesla has a small window of opportunity of about 4 to 6 years to get to scale at the same time as their competition will be able get to scale with similar products. The luxury OEMs does not have anything to show in the dealer until 2013 or 2014. And subsequently the OEMs need about three more years to ramp up production and distribution just like we see that the Leaf is introduced in December 2010 but will not sell in volume until about December 2013. Ramp up is faster for new conventional gas cars as they are based on familiar technology and components. EV ram up is much slower as you need to secure production of entirely new components regarding the vehicles' drive trains. Moreover, in the luxury segment you are a volume producer if you can do over 100,000 units per year combined for all models. This is not “mission impossible” for Tesla or Fisker from about year 2017. If they fail on this goal they will still be in a good position to sell their assets and patents to a large OEM that is behind the competition, such as, a large Chinese or Indian OEM.
· indyflick · 27 weeks ago
I would think the SUV market would really benefit from serial hybrid technology. Often a family will use their SUV for commuting on week days (pure electric) and then for longer trips to the mountains, beach, to see relatives, etc on the weekend (range extended mode). A serial hybrid would work out really well for that circumstance however in an crossover SUV, or perhaps mini van, rather than a sedan.
My other comment would be with regards to the genset in these first generation serial hybrids. I would prefer to see a light weight, air cooled, purpose-built engine utilized for the genset that operates on regular gasoline. Because such a genset would likely produce less kW than the larger water cooled gensets, the vehicle would need to be destination aware (total expected range for the trip). So the genset would perhaps start far sooner in the trip, rather than simply starting once the battery pack was depleted.
· jim1961 (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
When I first read about a hybrid concept car about 30 years ago it was a serial hybrid. I like the idea that the ICE could operate in some narrow RPM range that would maximize efficiency. When I first heard about parallel hybrids I thought is was a stupid idea but I think differently now. The problem with series hybrids is that energy conversion is never 100% efficient. The efficiency of an electric motor/generator and inverter in a state of the art EV can reach about 93% under ideal conditions. That means at least 7% of the energy is lost when mechanical energy from an ICE is converted to electrical energy in a series hybrid. This electrical energy must be converted back to mechanical energy to drive the wheels with another 7% of the energy lost. It's no surprise that GM engineers said a direct mechanical connection between the ICE and the wheels in the Volt resulted in an efficiency boost of about 15%. Why is Fisker making it clear that the Karma has no mechanical connection to the wheels when it's obviously less efficient? I can only guess they are pandering to EV enthusiasts who know very little about physics. Don't get me wrong though. I think the Fisker Karma is an extraordinary automobile.
· Henrik2 (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
@Jim
When the Karma has 50 miles of all electric range you will likely do less than 10% of your annual miles in the range extended mode using the gas powered generator. The point is that efficiency does not matter so much for the 10%. It is more important to have high efficiency for the 90% of the miles driven.
The Volt uses a complex gear and clutch system that add to costs (possible 3000 USD) and weight (possibly 150 pounds) in order to gain some efficiency, perhaps 8%, when driving in range extended mode. However, the weight gain will decrease the efficiency and performance of the Volt when running in battery only mode so it is still questionable whether the Volt is more efficient for the total annual miles than a Volt without the ability to link the motor directly to the wheels.
· jim1961 (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
@Henrik,
The Volt drive train is quite misunderstood by the general public. The same planetary gear set that blends ICE power with electric motor power in CS mode also does another neat trick in EV mode. When the Volt is operating in pure EV mode at higher speeds the power of the two electric motors is blended by the planetary gear set. The way the planetary gear set works in this mode is as if one electric motor is turning the body of the other electric motor. This reduces the RPMs of the electric motor which increases efficiency in EV mode. If you want details of how this works you can find a link on this very website. It's also on youtube under Volt drivetrain deep dive.
· ex-EV1 driver · 26 weeks ago
@jim1961,
Many of us here fully understand how the Volt drivetrain works. It clearly is a compromise design deferring to the status quo of ICE, transmissions, after-market parts and maintenance, and NVH experts that dominate GM. If they had designed a serial hybrid most of these folks would eventually be out of jobs if the car ended up being a success. Selling a new product which obsoletes a large majority of any company is never going to be easy.
I agree with your comments that the ICE efficiency of the Volt is probably better than a serial hybrid such as the Fisker but, I'll reiterate what Henrik2 said that saving 15% (your number - I think its a bit high) on 10% of your driving for a total of 1.5% total improvement just does not make much sense.
What the added efficiency does, however, is to allow GM to bait-and-switch to send people to the Cruze by being able to claim that the Cruze Eco gets better mpg than the Volt. If you don't believe me just go into any Chevy dealer and ask about the Volt and this will come up quickly.
Its convenient that a successfully selling Cruze will employ 100% of GM - at least until oil becomes too expensive for people to buy.
You could avoid the high RPM efficiency issue with the electric motor by simply giving the car a bigger electric motor - but that wouldn't exactly be preserving the legacy ICE folks would it?
Another benefit of the Rube-Goldberg Volt powertrain is that there is no risk of anyone suggesting that the ICE be replaced by a larger battery. Another convenient factor to preserve the legacy ICE.
You've got to look at the action and realities, not the snow jobs from GM.
· jim1961 (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
Here's a challenge to all the Volt haters out there. (this site is loaded with them) I'll make a wager with anyone that when the official EPA numbers come out for the Fisker Karma it will be significantly less efficient than the Volt in both charge sustaining mode AND in pure EV mode. Any takers?
· ex-EV1 driver · 26 weeks ago
@jim1961,
Sorry, I agree with your prediction. The Fisker Karma was designed by an egotistical artist who, from what I can tell, has little respect for engineers or mechanically inclined people. I'll be surprised if it works very well in any respect, especially in reliability and efficiency.
I don't actually consider myself a Volt hater. I'm just kind of apathetic since I want fast progress away from oil dependance, not GM's continued efforts to slow it down as much as possible. I'll put my money into companies and products whose product roadmaps will liberate us from the need for oil as soon as they can without letting all of their legacy baggage get in the way.
I considered getting a Volt until it came out and I realized I would need gasoline on a daily basis if I got it. The Leaf met my daily commute needs, was a lot cheaper, and built by a company that showed true commitment to plug-in vehicles.
· Henrik2 (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
@Jim
I love GM as a company and I am thrilled GM’s management had the courage to do an electric range extended car several years ahead of the competition. After all, the fact is that the Volt by far beats the Prius in terms of efficiency and environmental credentials and it does so without any compromise in quality or comfort. However, we live in an open society and we should be allowed to criticize each other and strive to always improve what we can do. I might add, I am often wrong when I criticize something but in these cases you still benefit from learning by being corrected.
You are right. I did not think about that the Volt’s planetary gear also helps to make the pure battery drive mode more efficient by keeping the electric motor nearer its peak efficiency point. However, we both know that this does not matter nearly as much for electric motors as it does for combustion motors. Moreover, gears are not perfect either. It may not be an entirely fair comparison but the Leaf has an EPA rated consumption of 34kwh per 100 miles whereas the Volt uses 36 kwh per 100 miles in its pure electric mode according to EPA. In other words, the Leaf is more efficient despite being a larger car with space for 5 and a larger trunk than the Volt. Also the Leaf uses a simple single speed gearbox. The Volt can do 0 to 60mph in 9 seconds (with assistance from the ICE motor) and the Leaf can do it in 9.9 seconds so they are almost equally powerful. My point is that Nissan has done a really good job regarding efficiency in comparison with the Volt despite keeping their drivetrain as simple as possible.
EV1 got a point in terms of explaining the complex drivetrain of the Volt as a political outcome in a large organization where different people always fight for resources and the least strong group at present is the people that represent electric motors and power electronics. However, it is sad to observe that he on more than one occasion has made opinionated and baseless accusations about people and countries he does not know much about.
· ex-EV1 driver · 26 weeks ago
@Henrik2,
Sorry if my statements about Denmark offended you. Unfortunately, I simply told about what I have seen there on my many visits.
I actually like the place and the people.
I just don't consider it any greater than a lot of other countries.
Unfortunately, I do have the frequent flyer miles (and back pain) to witness that I have some first hand knowledge about a lot of other countries.
· All Electric Guy (not verified) · 26 weeks ago
The TV celebrity paparazzi show TMZ was showing pictures of Leonardo DiCaprio standing next to one of the first to be delivered (Silver colored) making jokes about the recycled components including used diapers in the seats.
Speaking of gearbox efficiency, you can't beat the disk motor embedded in wheels, eliminating all gears, the motors also can provide traction control more elegant than cycling the brakes, a prototype Austin mini used 4 160 H.P. motors.
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Once the big OEMs entered the EV and PHEV market I'm not sure how the upstarts such as Fisker can survive. The automotive industry is all bout scale. Scale is what the upstarts lack.