yeah, I gotta wonder why so many people feel the need to tell everyone that they're not "tree huggers".. wth?
Experienced EV Driver Compares Prius, Mini E and His New Chevy Volt
“There are a lot of tree-hugging, solar panel electric car guys out there,” said Mark Swain, a Chevy Volt owner in Valencia, Calif., when I spoke to him a few weeks ago. “I’m not one of them.”
Mark, a computer animator, instead sees the Volt as the centerpiece of a collection of high-tech gadgets that surrounds his life. Sure, he appreciates not going to the gas station or funding the global oil venture, but that’s not his motivation for going electric. “My primary objective is that this is better technology than what we’ve had in the past. It will change the way people drive cars.” He has used just six gallons of gas during his first 700 miles with the car. He manages between 38 and 44 miles of all-electric range (depending on the weather), and between 40 and 44 miles per gallon after the battery is depleted.
Besides, Mark likes to drive fast. “It’s amazing how fast you can go in a Volt, especially in sport mode.” Recently, when he peeled away from a light, a man in a 500-horsepower Cadillac CTS chased him down—with some difficulty—to ask him about the car. “The guy said ‘Dude! What is that car? I’ve never seen a car take off that fast.’ I said, ‘Welcome to electric. That’s instant torque at zero.’”
Current Garage: Volt and Prius
Mark has a great vantage point to evaluate the pros and cons of various electric-drive cars. He used to borrow his friend’s EV1, which was what sparked his original interest in electric cars. He leased the Mini E for a year as part of BMW’s pilot program. He takes test drives on every electric car he can get his hands on. And his other family car is a Toyota Prius.
This experience allows Mark to assess his current ride not as a true-believing Chevy Volt fanboy, but with a refreshing and agnostic candor. He nailed it (and made me laugh) when he said: “The Volt is somewhere between a Prius and a cool car.”
That sounds like a diss on the Prius (and the Volt), but he adds, “If you want a more economical car in general, the Prius is probably a better car than the [$41,000] Volt. But the Volt is faster, zippier, and you use a lot less gas if you don’t drive a long way.” He believes the Prius is roomier and has higher quality accessories than the Volt.
Mark took this photo of his Volt (the loaner vehicle from the Volt Customer Advisory Board) in the oil fields in Central California, just as a rain storm was approaching. He had five minutes to take the image before the oil workers chased him off. But not before asking him all about the Volt.
He calculated that for a trip of 130 miles, the fuel usage of the Volt and Prius are equal. If you drive longer than that, the Prius’s efficiency on gas starts to win out. For shorter ride, the Volt’s ability to run on electricity is the winner. “Not many people drive 133 miles from home on a regular basis,” Mark said.
The Mini E Rocked
He loved the handling of the Mini E. “It was a go-cart rocket. When you turned the wheel, you could really feel the road.” That’s left Mark disappointed with a lot of electric cars that have drive-by-wire and a numb ride.
Ultimately, Mark found the Mini E’s lack of space—only two seats and no cargo room in the back—too “limiting.” Mark also admits that with the Mini E’s range of about 90 miles, he had to fire up Google and carefully plan trips—a worry and hassle that he doesn’t have in the Volt with its extended gas-powered range.
The Volt’s interface "needs work,” according to Mark. “It doesn’t suck, but it’s not well conceived. Some of the Volt’s buttons don’t do much.” With the Volt, he misses how the Mini E provided dashboard indicators for the battery’s percentage state of charge, and the miles-per-kilowatt-hour—and wonders why General Motors and Nissan can’t provide that in their electric cars.
This photo was taken by Mark on his first long trip in the Volt during the 2010 Thanksgiving holiday. "On vacation in Cambria, California, we stay at a nice motel right on the water. It's one of the old style motels where you park right in front of your room," he said. "This just happens to be perfect for running a charging cable out of the hotel room to fill up the Volt in about 7-8 hours. It's great to have electric power on the central coast where gas prices are among the highest in California".
Three Peeves
- Getting charging equipment installed was a nightmare. “Oh my God. They really have to figure this out.” The cost of electricity goes down by about a third when you opt for a “time of use” plan from your power company. But getting the smart meter equipment installed and configured for this purpose required six or seven people to come to his house, a new 100-amp panel, and the digging of a 20-foot trench.
- Plug-in hybrids are great, but the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid is lacking. “The engine kicks on all the time," he said, about his test drie in the car. "If it’s a plug-in Prius, don’t kick on the engine when it’s charged. What the hell? If you’re just tooling around town, it shouldn’t come on.”
- The Volt doesn’t have enough regenerative braking. As with other Volt drivers we’ve spoken with, Mark always drives in Sport mode in so-called Low gear. “It’s kind of a misnomer to tell people that it’s a low gear, when it’s not. It’s just more regen.” He believes that all the electric cars coming out, including the LEAF, do not have enough regen. “They should have a variable option for strong, light or no regen,” depending on if you’re on the highway, in the city, or coasting down a windy mountain road.
Despite these pet peeves, Mark sees the Chevy Volt as a major accomplishment and the most technologically advanced car he’s ever driven. “I love this car. Everything that GM said this car would do, it actually does,” he said. “That’s a bold statement for a car company that hasn’t done an electric car in a while, and crushed the last one.”
Nonetheless, he opted for a lease, instead of a purchase, because he knows that even more appealing electric cars are on the way. “I don’t want to be stuck in this,” he said. Mark’s already thinking about which of the dozen or so upcoming electric cars will replace his Prius, and which plug-in hybrid will be on the market in three years when the lease on his Volt is up. Technology advancement marches on.
Comments
· PatricioEV · 1 year ago
· Jeff Lander (not verified) · 1 year ago
Great summing up Mark. He may not see himself as a tree hugging electric car guy but he is definitely a gadget loving geek with heavy nerd leanings. And I think proud of it.
We were also in the Mini-E program with Mark and while I am a beach kid who loves the environment we live in. I also love the power, geekiness, and nerd cred that comes with the car. Just like in the Prius, we started out watching the gauges and maximizing in Mini and now Leaf. But not long after my leadfoot roots come out. Once you get used to it, EVs can just be really sporty cars. Love blowing people off the line in the Leaf.
And Anonymous.. Just sold my gas sports car but we still also have our 70's GTO convertible. I can go Eco or not depending on my mood.
· indyflick · 1 year ago
The Volt 0-60mph is a respectable 8.5 seconds. However, even an older 2004 CTS-V 0-60mph is 5.1 seconds. The 2010 CTS-V 0-60mph is 4.3 seconds and makes 551 lb-ft. of torque!
But I doubt you bought your hybrid for it's performance, it sounds like you bought it for it's technology. It does have a lot of interesting technology.
· indyflick · 1 year ago
Yes, and 0-30 times would be closer yet. This is because were talking about acceleration curves originating from 0mph. The CTS-V acceleration slope is far steeper than the Volt. So the further to the right on the curve you go, the greater the convergence.
The first ten feet or so might be interesting, especially if the CTS-V driver had a bit slower reaction time than the Volt driver.
· Christof Demont... · 1 year ago
@Patricio -- Have to agree with you on this one. Proud to be a tree-hugging future solar-charged driver (got the solar, waiting on the EV) -- proud, but not arrogant.
I get the different strokes -- environment, national security, technology, fueling independence and economics are the 5 biggies -- for different folks thing, I really do, but I don't go out of my way to say I'm not a "techno-geek EV+PVer", or not a "right of center libertarian anti-foreign oil" guy, etc.
· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago
Christof: I think the point Mark was trying to make was that you don't have to be a tree-hugging, Al Gore disciple to like and want electric cars. Most people here understand that, so it's not really necessary to bring it up, but lot's of people that aren't really knowledgeable on the subject think that a certain philosophical viewpoint is a prerequisite to supporting EV's.
When I post remarks on various websites I later read comments about how I'm a bleeding heart liberal and how I'm probably standing on corners picketing wars and such. There's certainly nothing wrong with that, but that's not my gig. Some people just assume if you support electric cars, it HAS to be because global warming, and saving polar bears are the reason.
There are really so many reasons to support EV's, I don't understand why it can be so hard to get everyone to support them, and I'll never understand how any politician can be anti EV, unless his constituency are all in the oil biz. There aren't many things I can think of that would be better for America, then replacing foreign oil with domestic electricity.
· Christof Demont... · 1 year ago
Tom,
Eloquent response. And I see what you're saying. There's a stereotype out there about pro-EVers that isn't necessarily true about all pro-plug in folks.
It's interesting to me, though, that the type of commenter that you're talking about that assumes that you're a bleeding heart liberal seems to be a commenter from a right-leaning political orientation.
It would be interesting to nail down, via a poll, or a series of polls both the specific reason(s) people buy EVs, or even hybrids, and their political or ideological leanings.
I have seen a poll -- and I can't find the link I sent myself in my old e-mail box -- that, if I recall correctly, showed that about 1/4 of Prius owners are Republicans (another 1/3 were independents, 1/3 dems). It's certainly reasonable to assume that there's a similar breakdown on plug-ins, though again, you'd need to do a scientific survey to check this.
Assuming that that poll of plug-in advocates/buyers would show a similar breakdown to the Prius breakdown, to me it seems like the most important thing for people who are frustrated by being stereotyped as liberal/tree-hugging etc. for opting for EVs, hybrids can do is to successfully pitch EVs/hybrids to fellow conservatives/non tree-huggers. Kill the stereotype by converting the critics/skeptics of EVs who apparently only see them as vehicles for tree-huggers.
I generally tend to focus on bringing the lefty anti-EV folks over to the pro plug-in position because, being a lefty myself, I think I have more credibility with lefties than with those on the right. In other words, I think I have a better chance of connecting with lefties, and bringing them over to the plug-in "side". Doesn't mean I don't appeal to fueling independence, get off foreign oil, etc. on SolarChargedDriving.Com -- I do. Just means I think my energy is more effectively spent on focusing a bit more on green/energy efficiency angles.
· Electric Cars (not verified) · 1 year ago
Not sure what the comment about drive-by-wire technology in reference to steering feel is meant to mean. All cars have a mechanical link to the steering rack by law, although there are different approaches to providing power assistance that can affect what a driver feels through the wheel.
Drive-by-wire throttles are legal, by contrast, and there's not really a mechanical alternative for cars that can be propelled by electric motor alone.
Braking, like steering, has to have a mechanical component by statute. In an EV or hybrid the amount of regeneration and how it phases in and out in response to braking effort and speed can affect what you feel through the pedal. The Mini E uses a lot of regen at all times, so you rarely even need to touch the brake, but that's a very unfamiliar setup for most drivers. The Honda Civic hybrid, meanwhile, feels normal most of the time but has some nasty non-linearity in the amount of braking achieved for a constant pedal pressure as you slow to a stop, because regen apparently cuts out at about 4mph.
The challenge for the auto makers is to juggle the new factors at their command to maximise efficiency while still providing a familiar and predictable driving experience. It's going to take them a while to get it right.
· dgpcolorado · 1 year ago
@Max Reid, >Actually windmills work better at night.< That depends on where one lives, wind patterns vary a lot by location.
>So will these EVs & Plugins give rise to windmills on top of every home, school, postoffice, store.< Small scale wind turbines are less practical and efficient than large ones. Wind turbines also have noise issues. And they are more efficient up high and away from trees and buildings where the wind is stronger. So, it is unlikely that we will see them in any significant numbers in residential areas.
· EVNow · 1 year ago
@Tom "I'll never understand how any politician can be anti EV"
Right wingers don't call themselfs Anti EV. They say they are for "free market" and are anti-subsidy. They say the government "shouldn't pick winners" in the marketplace. etc.
When I talk to "free market" types, I always talk about subsidies given to oil even after it has been in business for 150 years, including a Trillion dollar last decade alone on "securing" the oil in the middle east. I also bring up nasty subsidies like money the fed govt gives for not planting/growing and universally accepted subsidies like tax deduction for interest on mortgages.
So, either subsidies for oil should be withdrawn (that includes ethanol etc) or to create a level playing field, EVs should be subsidized.
· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago
EVNow: True, but they know all about the oil subsidies. Calling out the subsidies for the EV industry is so hypocritical we can justifiably call them anti-EV. I don't care what they call themselves. Sure there are lot's of citizens that don't know (or don't think about) how much the oil industry is subsidized, but there is no excuse for a politician to talk about "free market" when they know damn well how much of our tax dollars go to big oil.
· indyflick · 1 year ago
Tom, if it weren't for hypocrisy, the right wing in America would simply cease to exist. They count on voters having extremely short memories. For example, when they are in power, they spend like drunken sailors (like double the national debt during the Bush administration) and when they're out of power, they harp on government spending and called themselves fiscal conservatives! They also never seem to get called out by the voters for their in-your-face hypocrisy.
· dgpcolorado · 1 year ago
@Tom, As you well know, much of that anti-EV subsidy "free market" talk is just posturing. The elephant in the room is that many politicians are purchased by big oil campaign contributions. It takes a lot of money to win elections and if that money comes from the oil industry, a politician is unlikely to support EVs and oppose oil subsidies or wars for oil (which can be framed as one's "patriotic duty").
What galls me are the sheep chanting "Drill, Baby, Drill" who elect those politicians. As if we could ever drill our way to oil independence. It is beyond idiocy, it is pathological.
· regman · 1 year ago
@Electric Cars (not verified)
"Braking, like steering, has to have a mechanical component by statute"
This statement, along with numerous other statements in your post, is incorrect. There are no laws that make steer-by-wire or brake-by-wire illegal. The laws governing these systems require certain performance with any single failure. All vehicles that shut off the engine (or have no engine) either have EPAS (Electronic Power Assist Steering) or HPAS (Hydraulic PAS) with hydraulic pumps powered by electric motors. These systems are directly mechanically connected systems that have power assist that comes from electronics (directly or indirectly). However, the "direct mechanical link" is not required by law, only the capability to steer with any single failure. The easiest way to achieve this is with a mechanical link. The brake systems on many of these vehicles (not your Civic however) are considered true brake-by-wire(BBW) in that they physically separate the mechanical link between the pedal and the brakes under normal operating conditions. What they all have in common though, is that they have a mechanical (hydraulic) backup during failures. Again, a pure electronic brake-by-wire (with electro-mechanical brake calipers) is not illegal, just hard to manage all the failure modes without a lot of electronic redundancies (cost).
As far as "feel", EPAS can have a different feel compared to HPAS. All BBW systems have had issues with feel because of regen blending and artificially mimicking the force travel characteristics of a conventional system. In general, drive "feel" is tough because it is mostly opinion based. If you ask 10 people what is good "feel" you will get 20 answers.
There are additional mis-statements in your post regarding how works regen but these have been covered in previous posts by me and others.
· darelldd · 1 year ago
> When I post remarks on various websites I later read comments about how I'm a bleeding heart liberal and how I'm probably standing on corners picketing wars and such. <
One of my favorites was when I was accused of living in a tree, and eating nuts and berries. I mean, I haven't done that since my days at UC Berkeley!
There are many Prius owners who lean far right, and that's awesome! However... there are some of those who are just incensed that other folks might assume that their vehicle choice indicates that they want to tread lighter on the environment (or - and this has to be my favorite - that they're gay). Oh no! They'll tell you right up front, at the top of their lungs - "I didn't buy the Prius to be green, or to slow GW, or to save the wales. I don't believe in any of that stuff. I'm just a patriotic red-blooded American who wants to spend as little of my money as possible". Some of them are seriously bummed that the Prius can save them money WHILE it is also nicer to the environment. Are there really people who take offense at the very notion of polluting less? People who think that we humans and the environment are not connected at the hip? That protecting the environment can be considered as an afterthought at best - and completely ignored at worst? I have to wonder about the "I'm not one of them" comment as an introduction to owning what many consider a "green" product. Why does the retraction have to be stated? Why is it so important for people to know that you don't care about the environment?
Whoa. I'd better stop.
· abasile · 1 year ago
In general, we need to quit apologizing for who we are and what we choose to purchase. (This goes for me, too.) Our Prius has a "Smile...Jesus Loves You" license plate frame. Someone can choose to be turned off by our faith, that we drive an "environmentally friendly" car that uses less oil, that our car was made in Japan, that it is blue, etc. Folks can come up with all sorts of labels that they consider to be negative. This is often the case when people feel that some of their major choices in life are being challenged. This will probably only intensify when we start driving an EV, so we might as well get over it now, and be prepared with good answers for those who question our transportation choices.
· darelldd · 1 year ago
>Was the motel owner cool with you using their power to charge your car? Did they know?
This new technology can bring some interesting questions!<
I wonder... when you stay in a motel/hotel, is the property owner cool with you using their power to run the AC, or to heat the water for your bath, or to have all the towels washed every day? Some folks will run the AC all day in an empty room - because they can and because they see it as something they've already paid for. Another might charge his Volt. Both would use about the same amount of electricity. Why is charging a car judged differently than other uses (or wastes) of electricity?
· dgpcolorado · 1 year ago
@darelldd, You ask: >Are there really people who take offense at the very notion of polluting less? People who think that we humans and the environment are not connected at the hip? That protecting the environment can be considered as an afterthought at best - and completely ignored at worst?<
Your questions were probably intended to be rhetorical, but the answer is "yes" to all of them. There really are such people. For example: some years ago I did some business with the owner of a real estate brokerage. It turned out that he was a member of a religious sect, which I won't name, and he expressed the view that it didn't matter what we did to the land or the environment because end times were coming and he was going to ascend so nothing else mattered anyway. This point of view was rather startling to a scientist like me, but it sure cured me of my naïveté concerning the disparate views of people concerning the environment.
· abasile · 1 year ago
@dgp: So, the idea is that we have been blessed with an awesome planet, but since the end is near, we can go ahead and trash it all we want? Isn't that a bit like being careless and sloppy with one's use of a rental car since, after all, it is going to be returned to the rental agency? If I as a father give good gifts to my children, will I be happy to see them trashing them just because they won't be needing them when they are older? The attitude you describe seems more like mis-use of religion to justify a particular, nonsensical point of view. I find it repulsive, and I'm sad to say I have encountered it myself as well.
· dgpcolorado · 1 year ago
@abasile, I agree. One reason I choose not to mention the religious sect is that I've known some lovely people with that faith and I don't want to tar them with the views of the person I described. But people like the guy I described are out there, sad to say. And some are in Congress making policy decisions for us all.
· darelldd · 1 year ago
Not caring about our Earth is one thing. And I get that some people truly don't care. But what I was taking about goes the extra step: Taking actual offense at somebody assuming that you might care? I have experience people who are violently opposed to doing anything that might be misconstrued as "good for the environment." This goes way beyond indifference. The end result is likely the same, but wow.
· Steve (not verified) · 1 year ago
Hi Jeff! ... gr8 to hear you guys are into EVs. Too bad all the wasted emotional energy in these blogs ...
A bunch of us believe in EVs that perform better than there ICE counterparts ... this feature plus, conversion of the best OEM cars and motorcycles, is, in our humble opinion, the best way to get to the "EV tipping point" here in the U.S.
Check out the e-BMW325i and e-HondaCRF250R on http://EVDrive.com and the e-muscle/hot-rods on http://SSI-Racing.com and let me know what you think of what they are doing ... Imagine your GTO doing faster 1/4 mile times than it currently does ...with one acknowledged downside, absent of that wonderful V8 music to our ears.
Once you have experienced the acceleration of e-vehicles like the Tango, Tesla, etc., and you know you can "fuel" these cars with the sun, off the grid, you will get hooked for life ...
Vehicle OEMs have invested billions in safety, fit, finish, braking, suspension, interiors, accessories, etc, so why build new EVs from the ground up when you can take great vehicles we all now own and love and make them better ...
We are taking a survey to help determine what complete conversion kits should be engineered for near-future local dealer install, warranty & support -> http://bit.ly/Electric-Conversions-Survey
Feel free to re-post and distribute to your network. Thank you in advance for this effort.
All the best to you and Margeret,
Steve
· Anonymous (not verified) · 1 year ago
"Recently, when he peeled away from a light, a man in a 500-horsepower Cadillac CTS chased him down—with some difficulty—to ask him about the car. “The guy said ‘Dude! What is that car? I’ve never seen a car take off that fast."
---I'm guessing the guy in the Caddy has no idea how to drive his high horsepower CTS. He should have had no problems catching up or just plain beating the Volt off the line. The Volt takes 8.5 seconds to get to 60mph. By that time the CTS should be at 90mph or so. It would only be a close race if they were racing to 30mph or less.
"Mark, a computer animator, instead sees the Volt as the centerpiece of a collection of high-tech gadgets that surrounds his life. Sure, he appreciates not going to the gas station or funding the global oil venture, but that’s not his motivation for going electric."
--He sure isn't about saving money because it seems like he spends A LOT of money on the newest gadgets. My guess is that he's one of the first ones in line everytime Apple comes out with a new product. It must be nice to throw money around.
· Virginia Mom (not verified) · 1 year ago
As a military wife, I consider driving an EV very patriotic when I consider the number of soldiers we have fighting for our access to oil. Cleaner air and trees are lovely too, of course. As for the oil industry, I don't lay awake at night worrying about them given the quantity of oil used to manufacture cars and tires ... regardless of whether they are EVs or ICEs. In fact, using electricity to move cars around just increases the amount of oil available to build more cars ... so we all "win" right?!
· Michael (not verified) · 1 year ago
I'm renting a Prius right now. This is first time I have had the chance to really wring one out, and check out the nuances. Overall, it is a very nice car, but has left me with wanting more on the electric side. I'd like a car I can put in EV mode, and it stays there for a while, including freeway speeds. I think the Volt would meet that desire. Some days I drive a lot of miles for work, so a pure EV is not practical. I'm too tired at the end of the day to be looking for fast charge stations, and just want to go home. Again, the Volt would work out well.
· SageBrush · 1 year ago
The 'I could not care less about the environment, and want to run over those that do' contingent is out there, and loud. Anybody ever found one who is not libertarian or republican ? My pet theory of the day is that they missed out on breast feeding and spend the rest of their lives angry.
· Anonymous (not verified) · 1 year ago
Love the move forward with this car, and I can't wait until we get them in flyover country. Til then, the Volt is more hype than car. A comment about the oft-quoted 0-60mph specs: Get behind at a stoplight, and you'll be going 0-60 in 57 seconds. I'm in no hurry, and I refuse to accelerate fast. It's a waste of gas. Maybe an e-car will change that.
· Anonymous (not verified) · 1 year ago
Reading his account of the Volt's acceleration reminded me of how inaccurate
many are when it comes to such things. The Volt figure I remember was 9 seconds
to 60, which makes it far slower than ANY car I've ever owned, including some sedate Buick sedans. And as those batteries age, the acceleration will only get worse - much worse after 8 years or so. And the EPA rates the Volt as 35MPG while running on gas, which is
not close to either 44 MPG or what most of its much cheaper competitors can manage.
The rest of his remarks follow in like manner, especially his belief that the Volt is
"advanced engineering." What the Volt actually is is a an overly complicated and very expensive attempt to avoid the high cost of a large battery pack and provide travelling range. That dooms the design and totally eliminates the advantages one gains by going electric.
The Volt is basically a $15K car that is retailing not far from $50K. And if that isn't reason enough to avoid Chevy dealers, the car is also slow, plain looking (actually rather ugly)
and cramped. Did I forget to mention heavy?
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