EV-Hater’s Guide to Hating Electric Cars: Third and Final Chapter

By · August 29, 2011

Sunset over gas station

Gas stations are a beautiful and permanent feature of the American landscape. It's our God-given right as Americans to pay high gas prices.

Based on the great feedback to the first two installments of this series—the original EV-Hater’s Guide to Electric Cars, and the subsequent Chapter Two, I decided to compile one last set of anti-EV tips. I’ve been blown away by the strong reaction to the previous articles. It seems, whenever anyone brings up the topic of electric cars, people get agitated and start to make frenzied declarations about politics, science, and the fate of humanity. The topic is like a giant Rorschach blot. In a more rational world, someone who hates electric cars would respond by simply opting to not buy one. But that’s not the world we live in: something about the mere existence of electric cars stirs up angry indignation.

The third chapter of the EV-Hater’s Guide to Hating Electric Cars focuses on seven new and powerful ways to hate electric vehicles. Whether you’re an amateur hater, or a professional purveyor of misinformation, this third chapter is especially for you. Please read the first two chapters before tackling these more advanced attacks, requiring ninja levels of skill and stealth.

1. Point out the lack of charging infrastructure.

Actually, EV-drivers almost always will simply recharge at home, and won’t care that much if there is public recharging or not. But don’t let that stop you from playing the “Where do you recharge it?” game. You’ve might have seen this on TV, when some news reporter at a gas station points out that there aren’t any EV charging stations around. The talking-head anchorman might reply, reading from the teleprompter, “Where on Earth can anyone possibly recharge these electric cars?” Of course, the electric grid is ubiquitous—and nearly a billion dollars worth of EV-charging infrastructure will be installed in the next five or so years. But never mind.

2. Gasp and say: “It takes all day and night to recharge.”

Point to the long time to recharge from empty to full. Don’t let on that an electric car will rarely drop to empty in the first place, and that the recharge mostly happens while everyone is asleep. And that it takes about 10 seconds to plug the car in. Make it sound like the EV driver is going to be stuck staring at his watch for hours every time he wants to drive somewhere. Don’t bring up the prospect of DC fast charging in public locations, allowing about 80 percent recharge in 20 minutes.

Lefty bumper stickers

From previous chapters, we know that all electric cars are small and underpowered. Now, add that they are exclusively driven by card-carrying members of Greenpeace.

3. Over-emphasize the green angle.

Try to communicate that “It’s green, so it must be sucky.” Keep referring to the electric car as a “green machine” or something like that. Be sure to smirk and sound irritated while you’re doing that. Make it sound like all EV drivers are tree-huggers with Lefty bumper stickers plastered all over their tiny plug-in cars. By focusing on the “green credentials” of the car, you can draw attention away from the speedy acceleration, great handling and luxury feel of today's electric cars. When you play the green card, EV advocates will sense that you’re up to something, but they will be defenseless to argue against the environment. Forget that nobody thinks green credentials will do much to sell cars, and that each electric car on the market will succeed or fail based on its merits as a car.

4. Try saying, “I’m not the hater. You’re the hater!”

This mind-bending claim will take EV-Lovers off guard every time. Accuse EV-lovers of hating whoever disagrees with them. That’ll show them! And don’t you hate being called a hater? Of course you do.

5. Pretend to be a logical-thinking skeptic, instead of a hater.

It helps to boost your credibility by pretending to be an EV-Skeptic instead of an EV-Hater. EV-Skeptics are everywhere. And usually, skeptics are perfectly normal and intelligent people. But there are some important differences between them (the skeptics) and you (the haters). Unlike you, EV-Skeptics are usually curious, and often they will change their mind in response to new information. Unlike you, the skeptics won’t be upset if EVs succeed on the road. And unlike you, skeptics won’t take offense if a transition to EVs helps solve three or four major world problems.

6. Lift your spirits by reminding yourself why you hate.

Hating is hard work, so keep your spirits up! There are a lot of good reasons to hate electric cars. Now breathe deeply, and feel the hate flowing through you. Ahhh. Now, remind yourself of the reasons that you hate. First, you enjoy paying those high gas prices. Next, you like the idea of funding hostile regimes while you drive. Then, remember how you like seeing that graph of the Earth’s rising CO2 levels. You saw Mad Max, and kind of think it would be cool to be Mel Gibson.

Neil Cavuto employs the EV-Hater's last resource technique with great skill. Just keep repeating "It's stupid."

7. When all else fails, just keep repeating, “Plugging in your car is stupid.”

If it works for Neil Cavuto of Fox News, it can work for you. Never step foot in an electric car. Never give it a try. And no matter what anybody else says, cut them off and say, “It’s dumb. It's stupid.” For good measure, keep repeating that you (or your wife) will forget to plug it in.

That concludes our series. (For now). So, what are you waiting for? Go out there and spread the hate. See you at the pumps.

Comments

· EvDriver (not verified) · 6 years ago

I met my first EV hater the other day, I've had my EV for about 4 years and this guy seemed to have gotten at least half of his info from the Top Gear TV show, he started out talking about how non of the car makers will admit to how much the electricity will cost you per mile and how long it takes to charge.
Cost per mile? the same as if you were getting 150 to 200 miles per gallon in a gas car, time to charge? not sure, it's always full when I wake up and when I leave work and I've only managed to run my batteries down as far as 50% a few times,

· alt-e (not verified) · 6 years ago

Someone should ask Neil Cavuto if he uses a calculator or an abacus.

· Eduardo Carbajal Torbay (not verified) · 6 years ago

What a dumb ass you are neil cavuto, how much are they paying you to say stupid things, Electric Vehicles are the solution for the environment and peoples pocket, no sound, no pollution, no CO2, no money for your country enemies, fresh air, sorry to hear such ignorant people on TV.
Please visit http://www.little-cars.es
Ups, I forgot you are so ignorant, you don't speak Spanish...
Have a nice day.

· · 6 years ago

Wow... your first one after four years? That must be some sort of record, or you live in some amazingly enlightened area!

One sure sign that somebody is an EV-hater: Doesn't know the difference between a hybrid and a BEV. Example: "Oh, you drive one of those electric cars? The Prius is WAY too small for me!"

· · 6 years ago

I really like that picture of the car with all the bumper stickers! I think that really is the image some have of EV drivers.

I look forward to the day when there are enough EVs on the road that they just become a normal part of the scene.

· · 6 years ago

Check out the comments on this LA Times article on electric cars:
http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/electric-vehicles/la-fi-autos-ev-m...

An example:

posing_dolly at 2:18 PM August 29, 2011

"GREEN" IDIOTS...HIPPIE PROPAGANDA.

Stuff this PUFF PIECE.

No one, except for

Smug cheapskates and
Those who refuse to bathe (and the two usually go together)

wants these CRAMPED DEATHTRAPS.

· · 6 years ago

You're always going to get those sort bizarre spammer comments following EV stories,
dgp . . . especially when the story is presented in media that may not be purely associated with electric car technology (general newspaper site, etc.) People sometimes spam like this just to get an excited reaction. "posing_dolly" might actually have such an EV-hostile mindset or, for effect, is actually . . . just posing. Hard to tell.

Most of the people I encounter regarding EVs still think they are all micro tiny. I was having one of those casual "over the fence" chats with some of my neighbors a few months back and I swayed the conversation over to the subject. I told them excitedly that electric cars were now very much a reality, that Tucson was a designated Nissan Leaf test market, and so on.

My neighbor responded with a comment like "Oh, yeah, those Smart cars are cute, but too small for what I need." This implied that she somehow thought that Smart was a major player in the U-S EV market and I had to clarify that they really weren't. She was surprised when I told her that the Leaf (made by the same people market such familiar fare as the Altima) is similar in size to a Prius and capable of carrying 5 people. I don't think this person is going to consider an EV for their next car but I hopefully brought her a little closer to being somewhat informed as to what is (or going to be) out there.

· Lad (not verified) · 6 years ago

Bumper sticker: "THIS CAR PASSES GAS...pumps>"

· jim1961 (not verified) · 6 years ago

I saw Neil Cavuto's rant on another website. This video made me laugh. "People are going to get divorced over plugging in!" ROTFL! Mr. Cavuto is as funny as Steven Colbert

· SVL (not verified) · 6 years ago

Yes, I'll forget to plug in my EV, just as I forget to go to the gas station when I'm running low. Dummest excuse ever. Oh, by they way: "anything you have to plug in, I don't use" How about your blender? Or washing machine? Or dish washer? Or TV? Erm, that guy's house must be full of crap he doesn't use, because it needs an outlet.

· bytheway (not verified) · 6 years ago

By the way, in the winter time in northern Canada, they always have to plug in gasoline cars when it's -40 or they will not start. It's for the block heater. Not sure if it's caused any divorces though, but on the other hand, every home has ready access to a charging station as pretty much everyone has a block heater receptacle. Even parking lots at work have block heater receptacles in this strange country up north. Wait, maybe it could also charge EV's summer/winter? Nah.

· · 6 years ago

Really enjoyed your series Steve! -- although I do have to say that I disagree with the claim that EVs, or any consumer purchase, for that matter, can be neatly divorced from politics.

Just to stir the pot a bit on that topic -- http://solarchargeddriving.com/editors-blog/on-evs-a-phevs/799-sorry-fra...

· Chris T. (not verified) · 6 years ago

"First, you enjoy paying those high gas prices."

Actually, we have almost ridiculously low gas prices.

I just got back from Australia, where filling the tank of a compact car costs about $80. Imagine filling the two tanks of a big truck....

· · 6 years ago

Let's call gas prices "high relative to electricity" and "low relative to reality." It really IS pathetic to hear how "high" our gas prices are in the US.

· Tom Thias-Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy (not verified) · 6 years ago

Mr. Harvey,

This is Tom Thias of Sundance Chevrolet in beautiful Down Town Grand Ledge, Michigan.

We sell and lease the 2011/ 2012 Amazing Chevrolet Volt EREV... ( 5 so far ) well as soon as we can get them. Currently just received into inventory a stunning triple white 2012.

I have been angered, frustrated and pushed to the point where my everloving voltec brain is on fire by the anti EV and Volt rants comming at us from all fronts.

What a blast of fantastic whit and hard hitting elements in your EV Haters piece. I loved every word of it so................................

Please allow me to share My Volt White Paper. ( if it fits ) ( I will declare this fair use )

Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy

WhitePaper

The plug in adventure has begun…….Plug it not pump it !!!

I can not hold myself back any longer. I have met the driving future and it is here now……!!!!

On the market now in limited supply and possibly sold out is the 2011 Chevrolet Volt. Just a 7 launch market rollout to allow for strict quality control and seamless consumer adaptation. The 2011 production run involved a total of 3975 1st Generation Vollt EREV's.

The 2012 Amazing Chevrolet Volt EREV's are cranking out the door at Detroit, Michigan's Hamtramic plant. American Made, American Fueled!

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Here is a statement of 2011 production from Doug Wernert-GM Volt Team-July 20 2011.

( http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?8451 )

Hi everyone,

This is Doug Wernert from the Volt team. Hope I can help clarify:

Our Detroit-Hamtramck plant builit 3,975 2011 Chevrolet Volts since start of production in November 2010. To date, nearly 3,200 have been sold to customers through Chevrolet dealerships, roughly 550 were delivered to dealers as demo units and about 150 held for internal purposes (marketing and engineering). The remaining 97 units are still available for sale. The 2,745 number you may have read are for the 2011 calendar year, not the model year.

One note: the Volt's delivered to utilities throughout the United States are refurbished pre-production units and total sales to fleets were fewer than 200.

+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

The 50 state roll out is building for the 2012 Model year. 60,000+ are now in production with 15,000 to be diverted to companies such as GE Inc, your local utilities, government fleets and off shore sales. With a possible doubling of the production volume for 2013

Following the owner blogs and postings at gm-volt.com it can now be assured that the 2011 Chevrolet Volt Extended Range Electric Vehicle rollout has been near flawless!!!

I have been studying the concept of an Extended Range Electric Vehicle since the announcement at the 2007 North American auto show of the Chevrolet Volt Concept Car.

I am infuriated at the amount of false information, flat out attack stories and wrongly informed websites, columnists, newspaper articles, reader replies, salespeople, blogs, news reports and of course a wrong headed Consumers Reports review.

So, let me begin like this………………HERE ARE THE FACTS…

1 ) The 2011/ 2012 Chevrolet Volt is an Electric Car.

An electric car with a range extending 1.4L gasoline generator. E.R.E.V.-Extended Range Electric Vehicle.

2 ) Under full electrical charge this sporty, comfortable sedan can travel anywhere from 30 to 50+ miles all electric powered by a 111 kw/ 149 hp Traction Motor combined at times with the second 55 kw/ 74 hp generator in tandem.

3 ) Full range with a topped off battery and gas tank without recharging or adding a drop of gas is rated 379+ miles !

4 ) I can drive this car across the country and back without plugging in at all-while generating some of my own electricity to extend the volts range as seen below in Fact #9.

5 ) Seasonal temperature, driving habits and road conditions may occasionally result in all electric range somewhat lower or higher then 30 to 50+ miles.

6 ) Reports from some determined owners now brag results in excess of 73 MPC
( miles per charge ) have been achieved.

7 ) Only after driving 30 to 50+miles and the High Voltage Battery has been depleted to around 30% remaining charge does the range extending 1.4 liter naturally aspirated 4 cylinder gas engine fire up, powered from a 9.3 gallon range extending fuel tank. Seamlessly, quietly this little engine cranks a generator that powers the car onward, up to a total of 379 miles non stop.

8 ) The High Voltage Battery is neither charged or discharged when this occurs.

9 ) Amazingly enough as you drive this machine the Volt Onboard Systems make every effort to recharge the High Voltage Battery with a process called Regenerative Breaking.

********What this technology does is that any time the Volt slows down, coasts or you apply the breaks Regenerative Breaking recaptures the kinetic energy normally lost as heat in conventional hydraulic breaking by calling apon the Traction Motor to act now as an generator and recapture electricity back into the High Voltage Battery.

The visualization in the Center Stack LCD Screen with the push of the Leaf Button is dynamic to watch as it portrays the Regenerative Breaking that extends the range of the Volts' Electric Mode at any speed.

********Regenerative Breaking occures with the Hydraulic Breaks or without, any time you let up on the accelarator pedal to coast, high speed, low speed or crawl speed....this is outstanding!!

*******Example
Imagin this.....BELIEVE THIS FACT.....Thirty mile freeway run in a 2011 Volt with with a partialy charged High Voltage Battery with a 32 mile electric range. Thirty mile trip to demonstrate and show off the Demo 2011 Chevrolet E.R.E.V. Volt. The volt is driven at speeds of 65 to 70 mph. The drive shifter lever is in LOW ! Heavy Regenerative Breaking enroute to site.

Shut Volt down...pluged into outside building standard outlet and went inside and gave 32 minute presentation.

While it would seem impossable to drive thirty two miles and then demo the Volt on battery only, by driving to my destination in LOW I was able to recapture, generate and recharge on my way there. I was then was able to demo the 2011 Chevrolet Volt with still 14 miles plus of electric driving only !!

Regenerative Breaking ( INCREDIBLE !!! ) True ability to generate our own range extending distance while driving.......

10 ) The high voltage battery has been field tested to the extent that GM Tech states that this battery system should last up to 10 years, 150,000 miles. The Chevrolet warranty states that the Voltec powertrain including the High Voltage Battery is warranted 8 years/ 100,000 miles....

......And yes, all other normal Chevrolet New Car Warrantys are in full force as well.

So.........Unless you normally plan your next used car purchase 8 years in advance there are no concerns about the battery.

11 ) The on board Range Extending 1.4L naturally aspirated internal combustion engine
( ICE ) when engaged does NOT recharge, charge or extend the range of the High Voltage Battery.

12 ) Battery Disposal: Recycling of the High Voltage Battery after its usefulness in the Volt should result in a bidding war !! Utilities nationwide will buy these battery packs up and warehouse them-using the 50-60% usability left for off peak grid electricity storage !!

( http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/gm/news.detail.html/content/Page... )

13 ) My electric utility now becomes my "gas station". With the provided charging cord I can top off my battery, quickly add additional electric range or more inexpensive driving range by plugging into virtually any 110 volt standard wall plug anywhere any time any place.
.
While a full battery charge from empty giving the Volt a C.D. range of 30 to 50+ miles takes some 10 hours nothing says that I can't hook up any time any place any where adding 4-5 miles range per hour plugged in!!!

14 ) Yes, my electric utility now becomes my "gas station". Whether they generate by coal, natural gas, fuel oil, hydro, wind, solar or other means the cost to drive the Volt is much more efficient electric. 2 cents a mile electric verses 9 cents a mile gas !!!

15 ) A liquid thermal cooling and heating system keeps the battery at a comfortable temperature as it's being charged and discharged.

The Chevy Volt is equipped with four fully independent cooling systems or “loops”.

The power electronics cooling system loop is dedicated to cooling the battery charger and the power inverter module. The battery cooling system cools (or in some cases heats) the 360V high voltage battery. The engine cooling system and heater loop is specific to cooling the gasoline engine and when required, provides heat for the passenger compartment. The electric drive unit cooling system is designed to cool the two motor generator units and electronics within the 4ET50E drive unit trans axle and provides lubrication for the various gears, bearings, and bushings.

( http://gm-volt.com/2010/12/09/the-chevrolet-volt-coolingheating-systems-... )

16 ) Awards:

Motor Trend-Car Of The Year !
Quote "The more we think about the Volt, the more convinced we are this vehicle represents a real breakthrough. The genius of the Volt's power train is that it is actually capable of operating as a pure EV, a series hybrid, or as a parallel hybrid to deliver the best possible efficiency, depending on your duty cycle.

For want of a better technical descriptor, this is world's first intelligent hybrid. And the investment in the technology that drives this car is also an investment in the long-term future of auto making in America.
Moonshot. Game-Changer. A car of the future that you can drive today, and every day. So what should we call Chevrolet's astonishing Volt ? How about, simply, Motor Trend's 2011 Car of the year.

Automobile Magazine Car of the Year!

North American Auto Show Car of the Year!

Wards 10 Best Engines 2011 !

Popular Mechanics
-Automotive Excellence-Breakthrough Technology Award!
-Editors Choice Award!
-Top 10 Vehicle Award!

Car and Driver-10 Best Cars of the Year!

Popular Science Magazine-Best of What's New in 2010!.

2011 Green Car of the Year-Green Car.com!

2011 Motor Week Best of the Year Award !!

Cost to Drive C.T.D.

1 ) The Maroney Sticker on the window of the 2011 Chevrolet Volt stated this:

Drive an average of 45 miles between full charging and you will achieve the equivalent fuel economy-real time fuel economy of 168 miles per gallon…..168 miles per gallon !!!

2 ) The Maroney Sticker on the window of the 2012 Chevrolet Volt States this:

You Save $7,600 if Fuel Costs over 5 years compared to the average new car.

3 ) Comparison of Electric Vs Gas Driving.

A ) According to the Department of Transportation 70% of daily driving is 40 miles a
day or less.

B ) Average fuel economy for gas engine cars combined is 20 miles a gallon highway/ city
combined. Allow 40 miles a day average distance driven.....1,200+ miles a month.

C ) My local utility, Lansing Board of Water and Light will charge
$1.20 a day to top of my High Voltage Battery if I need to. Lets assume so.......

$1.20 a day to drive 30 to 50 miles a day or $36.00 a month !!

Link: Board of Water and Light Link: http://www.lbwl.com/PEVintro.pdf

Let's add a gallon or so a month in Charge Sustaining Mode for a total of about $40.00.

D ) With the cost of a gallon of gas at $4.00 that's $8.00 per day or $240.00 a month.
With the cost of a gallon of gas at $3.50 that's $7.00 per day or $210.00 a month.
With the cost of a gallon of gas at $3.00 that's $6.00 per day or $180.00 a month.

E ) Let us use the $4.00 a gallon figure for now at $240.00 a month gas cost.

$240.00 Cost of Gas
- $40.00 Cost of Electric plus some gas
----------------
$200.00 Cost to Drive Reduction C.T.D.R.

F ) Chevrolet.com says the 12,000 a year, 36 month US Bank Lease for the standard equipped 2012 Volt will cost $399.00 with $2500.00 down. Yes, 1st payment is also due up front as well plus tax and use taxes on the payment.

Ok, fine, pushing it a little...........

.

Now, ready ???????

Total real Cost To Drive per month...

$400.00 a month lease payment
-$200.00 reduction in the C.T.D
---------
$200.00 a month-net Cost To Drive !!

Simple Equation................................................

$400.00 a Month Lease

X36 Months =$16000

Save $200.00 a month on Gas !

X36 Months =$7200.00

$16000.00 Lease Payments

- $7200.00 Not Spent On Gas

=$8800.00 Net Cost to Drive

For a third party opinion on heavy Net Cost to Drive Reduction see the Kiplinger report in the link below.

September 2011

http://www.kiplinger.com/columns/car/archive/green-cars-make-cents.html

The Amazing Chevrolet Volt E.R.E.V !!

So.................

Stop it !! Quit stating,claiming, arguing and ranting that this car is to expensive, costs to much, that the average buyer can't afford this brilliantly conceived Electric Car !!

Charging

1 ) The Volt plugs into ANY standard electrical outlet such as where I plug in my Christmas Tree lights outside, through the bathroom window where I plug in my shaving razor or even that plug outside your office, shop, campground, motel, boat dock...... ya know the one with the metal protective cap…they are everywhere!!!

Of course I can hang the Charge Cord holder on my garage or carport wall or the side of my house. Attaches firmly like an old land line wall phone. Pull in, roll out and plug in!

Like your smart phone when you are streaming a lot of video, music or data I can plug my Volt in any time, any place, any where. Even a casual four hour quick charge will give me another 15 to 17+ mile range!!

Sure I can install a 240 dedicated charger but I do not need to. I repeat…I can charge my Volt any time any place any where…any time.

2 ) My local electric utility is anxious to be my electrical ” filling station". My “gas station” in their eyes is every wall socket in my home, garage, carport, bathroom, buddies house, school, office-any standard outlet.

Located in Lansing, Michigan the local utility is known as the Board of Water and Light. They post this on their web site….

Operating a plug-in electric vehicle means significantly reducing your carbon footprint with the added benefit of the cost of operating the vehicle. Averaging about $1.20 a day-roughly the same as a household appliance....( $36.00 month !! )

Board of Water and Light Link http://www.lbwl.com/PEVintro.pdf

3 )The Facts on the FEAR of to many electric cars EV'S Crashing The Grid is Unfounded, Not Possable and Senseless. The Amount of untapped and unused Electricial power available off peak is astounding!!

"A conservative estimate is that we have an amount of electricity unused at night that’s equal to the output of 65 to 70 nuclear power plants between 6 p.m. and 6 a.m.," Senator Lamar Alexander (R-Tenn) stated before the Senate Energy and National Resources Committee. “I suspect that’s probably our greatest unused resource in the United States. If we were to use that to plug in cars and trucks at night, we could electrify 43 percent of our cars and trucks without building one new power plant.”

http://www.torquenews.com/397/senator-alexander-unused-electricity-our-g...

Performance

The 2011/ 2012 Chevrolet is designed to drive as similar to the any other new sedan as possable.

While driving in the C.D. Mode ( charge depleting mode ) aka battery power the Volt takes off under full torque and feels surprisingly sporty...

0 to 60 in 8.9 seconds.

This volt can travel all day long at speeds in excess of 95mph.

( YouTube.com " laps in a volt " )

--- Laguna Race Track ---

16kwh Lithium Rechargeable Energy Storage System W/ Liquid Thermal management System.

Electric Drive Voltec With 149 Hp( 111kw ) Motoring Power.

273 lb. -ft. ( 370 N·m ) pf Motoring Torque. 74 hp ( 55 kW ) Generator Power.

0-60 in 8.9 Seconds/ All Electric or Gas Range Extending Electric Drive...

Amazing!!!

New For 2012:

1 ) PRNDL indicator is now located on the Shift bed in addition to the Instrument Cluster. The lever indicator glows yellow to indicate position.

2 ) A new 'Favorite' touch point on the center stack brings up an icon/ app display on the center stack Stack Screen allowing easy navagation of features.

3 ) Very Cool, proxmity unlock now standard on all doors and hatch release. With Key Fob in pocket or purse touch chrome button on door handle and door unlocks; hold longer and all doors unlock !

4 ) Killowatt usage now displays on center stack ! Located on the "This Charge" Screen.

5 ) Larger lettering for touch points on the Center Stack improver driver usage.

The Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Volt Facts Guy

Law of Logical Argument: " Anything is possible if you don't know what you are talking about "

*Greens Law of Debate* *Burks Postulsates*

· Tom Thias-Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy (not verified) · 6 years ago

lgtvotr 2011/ 2012/ 2013/ 2014/ 2015

· · 6 years ago

@Tom Thias-Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy
Thanks for the detailed breakdown of the benefits of the Volt. Clearly, the Volt is a good deal when compared to a pure-ICE automobile and meets a large part of the needs of the average American and you point this out well.
My only problems with the Volt are:
1) It's powertrain was designed (sabotaged?) to make it impossible to easily remove the ICE from the vehicle without completely re-engineering the vehicle. I can see how this design would please the judges at any GM internal beauty contest, given the dominant love of the ICE. Should a network of fast charging stations roll out across the country, GM won't be able to simply evolve it by adding more batteries and reduce the ICE to reduce the cost (including maintenance costs).
2) My daily drive uses more than 16 kWhr between charging opportunities, therefore, I would have to burn gasoline on both ends of my commute. While I can charge at work, my commute is 37 miles each way with a high elevation gain. I don't want to slow down to economize enough to truly get 37 miles of CD operations. With my house up a mountain, I'd have to wear brakes and miss out on the benefit of regenerative braking on the way down in the morning if I charge at night. The extra climb on the way home will definitely require the ICE to come on. I can probably tolerate the low power ascent at the end of the day so I won't need "Mountain Mode" but it will still require gasoline.
3) In CA, it doesn't qualify for carpool lane access. While not a show starter, why pay more (compared to the Leaf) and lose out on this initial benefit?
4) I'm also annoyed that many within GM and dealerships appear to be using the Volt to bait-and-switch people over to the Cruze eco because of the poor CS mpg that that huge ICE gets, relative to the eco. This does work with ignorant customers (and salespeople) who really don't comprehend the benefits you talk about.
5) The requirement to burn premium gas is annoying. I might overlook it if the majority of my driving could be done in CD mode - but it can't.

I'd consider buying the Volt over the Leaf if:
a) It were cheaper (this would be stupid for GM to do from a business perspective and as an unwilling forced investor in Government Motors, I don't support this).
b) It got ~50 - 100 miles of real-world (ie 75 mph) CD range.
c) It offered a diesel ICE option instead of only the Premium Gasoline one.
d) It offered head-turning acceleration such as 0-60 in 5 to 6 seconds to get people to really want it.
e) My purchase of it was paving the way for a vehicle that could offer b) or c) above.

· Tom Thias-Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy (not verified) · 6 years ago

Thanks ex-EV1 driver for your well thought our comments above. Until my own Amazing Chevy Volt EREV arrives I can only watch and read the comments of current Volt owners on Gm-Volt.Com.

Here is a link to an extensive owner thread that might deal with your mountain issue.

Best...

http://gm-volt.com/forum/showthread.php?6665-Mountain-Mode-to-save-batte...

· · 6 years ago

@Tom Thias-Amazing Chevy Volt EREV Facts Guy,
Thanks for the link. Unfortunately, I want to minimize my use of the ICE altogether so that I don't need gasoline. Ideally, I'd like to only use the ICE in emergencies or for occasional long trips but not on a daily basis to make it home.
I definitely do appreciate a Chevy Volt professional who actually gets what the Volt is all about.
My first car was a Chevy and my first 3 were GM. I would truly like GM to make a car that I want again (and let me keep it this time).
Thanks for joining this forum.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 6 years ago

There is a few strong reasons why EVs are not going to go big. One would be that, under extreme conditions, such as Heavy Wind and Rain, or really cold days, the battery's life is shortened, as well as performance. Not to mention that creating the EV car produces much more Co2 than creating a gas car, and replacing batteries costs a pretty penny, and production of that battery still uses a lot of pollution. How about this: Everyone recycle their cars and make bicycles out of them... that'll solve a few problems, such as pollution, and obese people.

· · 6 years ago

@ Anonymous -

You'll have to try quite a bit harder than that if you want to be in contention for a prize here. Ya got anything new? This stuff is all tired, and frankly a bit boring in the context of this thread. Still, I'm glad you tried.

· · 6 years ago

Yeah, he's not going to win any EV-haters award with those lame "arguments", but hey at least the last sentence was at least worth reading.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 6 years ago

Hmmm... How about this: Due to the EV's engine noise being virtually noiseless, say a blind guy who relies on sounds and a stick to get around town, doesn't hear the car coming... and gets hit.

Yeah thats a long shot but... hey.

Also according to this article, I'm not a hater, seeing as when technological advancements for such changes to occur, I would sense EVs have a chance... unless we find an even cleaner way to "manufacture" a environmentally friendly vehicle. Maybe.... wind powered bicycles.

· · 6 years ago

@ Anonymous -

Ah. thanks for your continued attempts. But still... old news.
http://www.plugincars.com/national-federation-blind-not-happy-nissan-lea...
and
http://www.plugincars.com/pedestrian-sound-alert-system-issue-reaches-le...

Let me give you a little hint on where you're missing the target: EVs are not perfect. But we can't compare any form of transportation to the perfect. We have to compare it to what we use now, and the other options. When you say it takes more energy/pollution to build an EV, you are ignoring the ongoing gasoline input for the gas car. We need to consider the impact of the life of the car - not just the initial manufacture. If we wait for your mysterious tech advancement, then we do what? Keep driving gas cars until that magical day? How does that help us?

· · 6 years ago

Anonymous:
Hmmm... How about this: There are tens of thousands of EV's on the roads around the world and there is absolutely no credible data that would suggest they are more dangerous to pedestrians(blind or not). If fact a comprehensive study completed recently in the UK proved that they are no more likely to hit a pedestrian.
Then there is the MINI-E program that I am in. These "silent killers" have been driving in seven different countries over the past 2 1/2 years and so far they have logged a total of over eight million miles and there hasn't been one documented case of a vehicle to pedestrian accident on one of them yet. Perception and reality are often two different things. Unfortunately, many in the uninformed public(you step in) assume things that they hear or read as fact without really investigating the subject.

Many times electric car articles are written by "journalists" that have never seen one in person let alone driven one so we experience an enormous amount misinformation, followed then by the proliferation of the misinformation by blogs and comments on websites that just repost what they read and sooner or later it becomes an accepted "fact".

In a parking lot when you are backing out of a spot, or driving very slowly(under 10mph or so), yes EV's are definitely much quieter than a conventional ICE, but once they start rolling you do hear the motor "whine" as well as the tire noise on the pavement, much like you do with a conventional ICE.

· · 6 years ago

That was pretty cool!

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