Coda Grasps At Straws to Differentiate Its Electric Sedan

Brad Berman · Brad Berman · 1 year ago

Coda Automotive, the small underdog electric car start-up, is promising to deliver its first vehicles in December. As an unknown entity, the company’s sales and marketing folks are under the gun to find advantages to their product, compared to the Nissan LEAF and Chevy Volt. It looks like the pressure is getting to Mike Jackson, Coda senior vice president of sales and distribution.

In an interview with AutoWeek posted today, Jackson, the long-time former General Motors marketing executive, calls the Coda sedan “the first affordable all-electric sedan.” Expected to sell just north of $40,000, compared to the Nissan LEAF’s $32,000 price tag (both before tax incentives), at first I couldn’t figure out how that could be. Both are four-door cars, with the overall length of the LEAF and Coda measuring within an inch or so from one another. Then, I realized that he’s calling the Coda EV a “sedan” because it has a trunk, while the LEAF is a hatchback.

Okay, fair enough. That’s a difference, but is the benefit of a “full trunk,” as Jackson says, worth an additional $10,000?

Jackson is on firmer ground when he points to Coda’s active thermal management of batteries. The LEAF’s system is passive—air flows over the batteries via a single fan to either warm or cool the batteries—while Coda’s cabin and batteries share the same heating and cooling system.

That could be a key advantage for ensuring more consistent range, especially in very hot or cold conditions and for maximizing battery life. And yet, Coda’s lithium iron phosphate cells, manufactured in China, are much less proven than the LEAF’s lithium polymer packs, developed in partnership with powerhouse NEC. It’s interesting to note that Coda’s 33.8 kWh pack is much larger than the LEAF’s 24 kWh—with Coda saying its range is 120 miles compared to the LEAF's 100-mile range. Again, is the extra 20 miles of range (on a good day) worth the gamble of buying from an unproven start-up versus Nissan?

Another Coda advantage is recharge times, because its on-board charger is 6.6 kilowatts, while the LEAF’s charger is half that at 3.3 kilowatts. That could mean a full charge of the Coda in 2 to 6 hours versus the LEAF’s 4 to 8 hours. Of course, the Chevy Volt with its smaller 16 kWh pack (which only dips to 8 kWh) has them both beat in terms of full-recharge. The faster charger could make a big difference in a pinch, but it still seems like a fairly insignificant metric because the most common pattern is overnight charging usually not started from full depletion. (I’m sure the experienced EV drivers on the site will weigh in. Guys?)

Jackson didn’t mention that the top speed on the Coda is limited to 80 mph, while the LEAF is 90 mph, and Volt can motor to 100 mph.

Jackson is technically right on all accounts. Coda has a trunk, active thermal battery management, and a faster charger. Don't get me wrong. I want all the EV start-ups to succeed, thrive, and spawn more electric driving. But Coda’s dressed-down looks and pushed-up price—as well as its lack of an established track record, unusual distribution network, and service system—makes you wonder who is going to choose the Coda over EVs from more established automakers.

Anybody waiting out for a Coda electric sedan over a LEAF or Volt?

Comments

· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago

I wouldn't count them out but they are in a tough spot. I think if you reversed the cars and Nissan had a sedan with a trunk, an active thermal management system on a battery that was 40% bigger and a charger that was twice as fast than the Coda then they would have no chance. I think the price is the biggest hurdle other than the fact that they have no track record but on paper the car itself is much more car than the LEAF is, no doubt about it. I see true some EV enthusiasts giving Coda a chance. Many of us have followed Coda for a while now so they don't seem as "new" to us as they do to the casual buyer that is interested in buying an EV. Too bad they couldn't have brought this car to market a year before the LEAF and Volt because they could have taken a lot of the early adopter money, now they have to fight for it.

· Brad Berman · 1 year ago

Tom - You hit the nail on the head. Totally agree that Nissan should (and probably will) add those features found in Coda. Also, I agree that their timing would have been much better a year ago. On the other hand, I think they're aiming for low production numbers, selling mostly to fleets. And because there's so much more demand than supply, they could be fine. The key is what happens after the first year or two. Can they scale? And can they compete when all the other plug-ins start showing up? The first owners are going to have to RAVE about the car, and somehow they need to avoid a single bad report. Let's hope they can make it.

· dilbert (not verified) · 1 year ago

It might be worth starting to talk about miles per charge hour or something. It kind of doesn't make sense to compare the charge times and say the Volt is better because it takes less time to charge. ....Yeah, that's right, but then you can go less miles with it.

If EV manufacturers are going to compete over charge times, then the number they give out must at least mean something. It should be a number that can be compared between cars.

· dilbert (not verified) · 1 year ago

great article by the way. :-)

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

@dilbert
I would recommend a very simple metric for charging:
miles per hour (mph).
To make it even easier, for level 2 charging at 240 volts, you can get a rough estimate of the charging miles per hour from the amperage at 240 volts.
Assuming 4 miles per kWhr:
16A: (240V*16A/1000W/kW)*4m/kWhr = 15.4 mph ~16 mph
32A: (240V*32A/1000W/kW)*4m/kWhr = 30.7 mph ~32 mph
40A: ~40 mph
70A: ~70 mph

· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago

Ex: You do make it simple with that explanation but don't you need to consider the rate the on board charger can accept the charge. For example the LEAF will originally come with a 3.3kwh charger but will probably have a 6.6kwh on the second generation. If you use the same EVSE for both cars with a 32amp feed the car with the 6.6kwh charger will charge twice as fast, and the mph will be double for the same amperage, no?

My MINI-E charges at 6.6kw on my 32amp EVSE and takes 4.5 hours to charge and can go 100-120 miles.
On my 50amp EVSE it charges at 11kw and takes 3.5 hours to charge to go the same 100-120 miles.

Your explanation mostly holds true for me except when I'm charging at 50amps because I only get about 35mph but then again the MINI-E isn't a very efficient EV and only gets about 3.5 miles per kwh so that makes it closer to correct.

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

@Tom,
Yes, all I can do is explain a simple wey to understand the ideal condition. As they always say: YMMV. I'm pretty sure you could get down to 4 miles/kWhr if you drove 55mph. You'll have to add your own knock-down factor. I generally don't get 4 mi/kWhr on our Tesla either - unless I try.
Regarding the anemic charging capability of the Nissan Leaf:
I also can't do anything about the egotists at the car companies who insist on designing EVs in a vacuum or with their own parachoil/nefarious interests in mind. They are designing EVs without having any understanding or concern about how things work in the real world or what is important to EV drivers. As far as I know, none of the decision makers on the EV programs at any of the auto manufacturers has ever lived with an EV. Until recently, none of them had even ridden or driven a production EV like a Tesla or Mini-E. To them, its just an academic exercise.
Why else would Nissan come out with a 3.3 kW (16 Amp or ~16 mph) charging?

· Tom Moloughney · 1 year ago

Ex: The 3.3kW charger is a real mystery to me. I wouldn't think it would even save money would it? Maybe they feel the slower rate of charge will help prolong the battery life and given the 100,000 mile warranty they want to be safe? At least I hear they will offer a 6.6kW charger on the 2nd gen.

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

I suspect Nissan's wimpy charge rate was caused by 1 of 3 things:
1) bluff requirements driving project managers who fixated on the requirement to charge overnight, hence 3.3 kW was sufficient so he/she 'shot the engineers' or anyone else who pushed for a little more for fear of increasing costs or schedule time.
2) Knowledge that the wimpy uncooled battery in the Leaf won't allow any more than 3.3 kW anyway.
3) Attempt to drive business toward a network of DC fast chargers to emphasize that as an after-sale revenue stream.
. . . or it could have been just plain stupidity.
I have zero inside knowledge here, only almost 30 years of engineering and management experience.

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

Gettingback on topic here:
It really doesn't surprise me that Coda is struggling. I, personally bought Ruben Miles' scheme that by building cars on China, he could price a startup's cars competitively with commodity, mass produced vehicles. Unfortunately, only Tesla and Fisker's startup business plans, starting at the high end really seem feasible for startups.

· Brad Berman · 1 year ago

Nick knows the story in detail. But the 3.3 kW charger resulted from requirements in Japan, but didn't translate to our needs in North America. Nick, Details? I think it was an oversight that Nissan knows needs to be corrected as soon as possible, maybe the next model year.

· darelldd · 1 year ago

Nissan knew of the 3.3 mistake at least as long as a year ago - but that was too late to change the first production vehicles. No question that the fix is in the works for the follow-on cars. The initial buyers get screwed, unfortunately. Apparently Nissan plans ot allow those new owners to pay money to have the car upgraded to how they should have rolled off the assembly line. ;(

· Anonymous (not verified) · 1 year ago

Does anyone know who the Lithium Iron Phosphate battery supplier is in China?

I think they are in a tough spot, and are gonna struggle to stay afloat... They definitely have the best website out of all the EV car makers out there.

· Brad Berman · 1 year ago

Coda will get its batteries through a partnership with Tianjin Lishen Battery Joint-Stock Co. in Tianjin, China.

· Christof Demont... · 1 year ago

If the CODA and LEAF were priced within $2,000 or so, I'd almost certainly go for the CODA.

Why?

I far prefer the conservative exterior design of the CODA -- and the 6.6 kW charger. In fact, the LEAF's exterior design -- I just can't seem to get myself to like it, although Tom and others tell me it looks better in person than in pictures -- might well be the thing that ends up pushing me to another EV (Ford Focus Electric?), even though, right now, I'm in for $99 on the LEAF.

Kind of superficial, I know. But exterior design is a big consideration for most people buying a gas powered car. Only, there's a lot more choice for you if you don't like one gas powered car vs. another than in the EV market right now.

· Karanji (not verified) · 1 year ago

Thanks Brad, I was the anon who asked the battery supplier question.

Keep up the good work! I am a daily reader here :)

· Jim McL (not verified) · 1 year ago

The 6 kW charger is a big deal, and also a major expense. That is why Nissan didn't do it, everything is about keeping the cost down in the first generation. It has to be.

After having a 12 kW charger on the Mini E, I rate the charging speed as very important, if not more important than range. The extra 20 miles of range in the Coda is expensive, the faster charger is expensive, and both are absolutely worth the price.

The Mini E uses AC Propulsion's drive train, which (as I understand it) has a patented feature that uses the motor windings as part of the charging circuit, making faster charging cheaper and lighter. Tesla licensed this for the roadster. I am sure there is a cost associated.

I want to be able to plug into TWO 50 amp 240 volt outlets at an RV campground, and charge at the faster rate the Tesla can handle, what is that, 19 kW? And with internal circuitry, not the $30,000 level 3 external DC charger.

I cannot see owning a Leaf unless I can get at least a 12 kW charger for home that could connect to the fast charge port. Is such a thing available? I bet it would cost $10,000 though.

· ex-EV1 driver · 1 year ago

Jim,
I'm with you on charging, however, going from 3.3 kW to 6.6 kW is a trivial additional cost and weight penalty.
While I, too like the ability to use 2 50-Amp outlets, it against all electrical codes. You'll have to hack your own solution in order to do that. No legitimate manufacturer will build a device to do that.
I hope that real fast charging (greater than 200 miles/hour) gets built into cars and deployed over the next 5 years or so since that is what we really need.

· abasile · 1 year ago

We will almost certainly stick with our decision to purchase a Nissan LEAF even if the Coda seems a bit better. The biggest question is, would I rather buy a car from a proven Japanese manufacturer, or from a start-up that is doing their manufacturing in China? And will Coda be around in eight years to honor their battery warranty?

That said, I will be very interested to see what the final pricing on the Coda turns out to be, including the "extras" that many would consider to be necessities. Those would include a 220V home charger and a Level III "fast charging" port. Of course, we'd have to factor in the above-discussed ability to charge at 6.6 kW, and the improved range.

If Coda's bottom line pricing turns out to be only a little bit more than the LEAF's, and they can deliver quickly enough to virtually assure folks of getting the $5000 California rebate, then I think they should be able to sell to a number of early adopters. And if those folks like the car, then it might actually get some traction.

· John Trotter (not verified) · 1 year ago

I've put my $99 down on the Leaf, but I'm leaning toward Coda simply because I'm an old guy. I like the Coda's more conservative styling and I'm afraid I won't be able to see to the rear to back up safely in the Leaf, in spite of the backup camera, which I think is a techno-fix to a styling blunder. Plus, I don't think the tail-lights look very visible in the videos I've seen of the Leaf. If the early reports on the Coda make it seem too iffy, I'll wait for the Focus. I want to support the transition away from gas and oil, but I'm retired and on a fixed income and can only afford to buy one of these things.

· darelldd · 1 year ago

John -

Old guys rule! :)

I find your comments about the Leaf interesting, because they are very similar to my complaints about the Prius. The view out the back is pretty bad, bordering on terrible for some drivers. And the tail lights are all but invisible in a sea of *real* tail lights on the road. I've never understood the decision to use micro 5W bulbs for the tails. Hello? LED anybody?

Any way you slice it, I'm glad that Coda is in the game. Competition almost always make the product better and more affordable.

· abasile · 1 year ago

I'm not that old (under 40 anyway) and I prefer the styling on the Leaf. The one nagging concern about the Leaf, though, as mentioned on numerous other threads, is the lack of an active thermal management system for the batteries. The more I ponder it, maybe purchasing a Coda wouldn't be such a bad idea after all. If Coda announces a lower price than anticipated (like $35,000 before subsidies), then I am very likely to just go for it.

The other possibility I have considered would be to wait for the Ford Focus EV. The trouble is, waiting that long would likely mean passing up the $5000 California rebate.

Yes, I guess you could say we are price sensitive. I want to purchase an EV soon, but not at any cost.

· abasile · 1 year ago

And yes, I am vacillating. :-) Until we sign papers and drive off a lot in a new EV, our minds can be changed as to which one to buy.

· abasile · 1 year ago

I would also add that it is in my nature to sometimes over-think and over-analyze. A common affliction for those with engineering and science backgrounds.

As to thermal management, or the Leaf's lack of it, plenty of folks at http://mynissanleaf.com think seem to think it shouldn't be an issue because Nissan has chosen a battery chemistry with good thermal stability. And 99% of our personal driving takes place between temperatures of 20 F and 100 F.

Truly, though, only time will tell. There is always risk involved in purchasing any early-model car with cutting edge technology. Normally, I'm content to leave those risks to others, but in this case, purchasing an EV fulfills one of my lifelong dreams.

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