Chevy Volt Sales Sizzle, Nissan LEAF Cools Off in February 2012

By · March 01, 2012

Volt LEAF

With February now in the history books, US sales of the two most-hyped electrified vehicles have been tallied and it's the Chevy Volt that sizzled it's way to the top.

With February now in the history books, US sales of the two most popular electrified vehicles have been tallied.

Nissan reports that sales of the electric LEAF checked in at only 478 units in February 2012. That's below the 676 LEAFs that Nissan reported selling in January 2012, but still seven times more than the 67 LEAFs sold in February 2011, when the market was just getting started.

Sales of the Chevy Volt picked up significantly with General Motors reporting it sold 1,203 units in February 2012. That's nearly double the 603 Volts sold in January 2012, but still a bit below the 1,529 Volts that Chevy sold in December 2011.

In terms of 2012 year-to-date numbers, the tally for the Nissan LEAF now sits at 1,154 units. Meanwhile, the 2012 YTD results for the Chevy Volt ring in at 1,626 units. That's 1,024 units above the sales mark set by the Chevy Volt after the first two months of 2011.

Critics will continue to declare plug-in vehicles a flop, but 2012 is far from over and the introduction of approximately 10 additional plug-in vehicle by year's end will significantly boost sales in the segment. The first units of the Toyota Prius Plug-in Hybrid are starting to sell, and Toyota's target is 15,000 units in the first year.

Will analyst predictions of about 100,000 plug-in vehicles sold in 2012 prove accurate? Keep an eye on new plug-in products and the rising price of gasoline.

Comments

· · 2 years ago

Remember Leaf is produced in one plant in Japan attemting to supply the world. Leaf just launched last month in Australia. This will all change 2013.

· Watson (not verified) · 2 years ago

The volt is the best car that I have owned.I have owned it 4 months and I just keep liking it more.

· · 2 years ago

"Nissan reports that sales of the electric LEAF checked in at only 478 units in February 2012. That's below the 676 LEAFs that Nissan reported selling in January 2012, but still ten times more than the 67 LEAFs sold in February 2011, when the market was just getting started."

This is wrong - 478 / 67 ~ 7x.

I'm hoping that this is a result of markets expanding faster than supply, as Red Leaf implied. I know that I have been waiting for 3 months for my own (red) leaf, and it looks like I might have to wait another month before I can drive it off the lot.

· · 2 years ago

@ Brian

Fixed. Thanks for pointing out the error.

· · 2 years ago

Volt sales should increase nicely this year as GE rolls their fleet to Volts. This could account for an additional 500 or so sales per month. LEAF sales in the US confuse me. I would have thought Feb sales would have been above 1000 units. I recall last year a lot of LEAF volume went to Japanese domestic sales. Are Feb sales data available for Japan and EU?

· · 2 years ago

Leaf sales are interesting. It's hard to get a handle on what's going on. The Volt has been thru the mill and the sales have been fairly steady. They built 3876 vehicles in February (2347 Volt units and 1529 Amperas for export to Europe). I wonder with the HOV Volt coming to CA has anything to do with reduce sales as people "wait".

Nissan could have a supply issue, but after a year of production (even with the natural disasters) it shouldn't be this far behind. Technically the car is easier to build than normal ICE cars. I wonder what the plant capacity is and if there is some other constraint keeping production low? Given Nissan has expanded availability to the entire US I can't see it being a supple issue.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

The supply issue is unlike that of GM.

Nissan has 1 plant in Japanese that builds LEAFs, for all markets in the globe.

This same plant is also building other vehicles (Cube, Tiida, etc.).

You also have to factor in allocation due to the strong Japanese Yen vs US $, compare to weaker Japanese yen vs the rising Euro. As a result, LEAFs are strategically allocated based on the currency fluctuation too.

· · 2 years ago

It is likely that LEAF production is battery constrained. That is why we need the plant in Tennessee. It will have a very big battery manufacturing capacity as well as the rest of the EV.

If someone like Brian Schwerdt above is waiting 4 months before he gets his LEAF then obviously the sales are not demand restricted.

In the case of the LEAF people from countries all over the world have been complaining that they haven't recieved enough LEAFs.

It is good to see the Volt sales rebound after one month where everything happened to go against them in January (anticipation of HOV lane Volts, recovering from the end of the year sales push, FOX "News", the settling down of the fire issues, etc.).

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

Wonder what the #s are for Focus EV and i?

Appreciate if you can follow up on those #, Eric.

BTW, 2 points that are important. Jan - Apr are traditionally extremely slow car sales month. There are likely many flleet Volt sales too.

GM's retail sales actually dropped in Feb. The increase was utterly on fleet vehicles. Same can be said on Ford too. This was reported on financial news on yahoo.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

My Volt is the best thing I have every bought. I have over 16,000 miles on it and I am due an oil change in 2015.

· · 2 years ago

Also realize that when Nissan Leaf launches a new country then they flood that country and probably starve U.S. some. I am sure it is a logistical nightmare.

Also the Smyrna Battery plant will be the largest battery plant in North America. I am surprised this site has not issued an article on the Smyrna Battery plant. Maybe I missed it.

As a Nissan guy I am also glad to see the Volt doing well. If they are doing well and have less issues I really think that helps the Leaf. It is amazing how people are associating the two together. The fire issue really has carried over to the Leaf just because of association. I had numerous conversations explaining that the Leaf is different and is not affected. But the general public does not understand that. There is a huge general public learning curve when it comes to EV's. Only time will change that.

· Rand E. Gerald (not verified) · 2 years ago

I'm waiting for the plug-in Prius or the plug-in Honda Accord due in 2013.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Volt sales are up because Obama made the gov't buy Volts for the gov't workers so they can cruise on down to the Handy Pantry to get a Big Gulp Slushy.

Too bad the workers also have to buy a pack of Duracells so they can get back to the office.

· Rick (not verified) · 2 years ago

1200 units in a country of 300M is "sizzling"?

hahahahahahahahahahahahaha

How many did the govt buy?

· To Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

As a Federal Government worker, let me just say, I resemble that remark. But seriously though, my gov't vehicle is an SUV, I wish I had a Volt.

· Arob (not verified) · 2 years ago

Hi, I'm a senior advertising student working on my final project which focuses on the volt, we're trying to pinpoint the target market so that is what this survey is for. It's pretty quick,I would really appreciate Volt owners taking the time to do this survey. thanks!!
http://kwiksurveys.c...LHKDHF_3d42a3b4

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

The basic concept of a gas power car is fill up for 5-10min and drive for 10-12 hrs; this has been ingrained in our habits for over 60 yrs and now the BIG BROTHER gov says charge for 8 - 12 hrs and drive less than 1 hour. Not very useful to say the least and if you will please further indulge me by imagining a car running out of gas; what to do, what to do? Pull the 1 gal of emergency gas from the trunk and start the time tested process again '5-10mins fueling drive 10-12 hours.' Now if go through the alternative reality of the "EV TWILIGHT ZONE" run out of electrons and you are now being towed to a charging station to wait 10-12 hrs to drive less than 1 hour. So the only effective way to put an electric motor in a car is add a gas power engine to make it a real car. This is simple logic and product marketing 101. Alas, logic and common sense do not function well under this OBAMANATION we currently live in now. One last point when AMERICA is finally allowed to access her own GOD given energy sources oil will drop on the world markets to under $50 a barrel and gas under $2 a gallon which will decimate this farce once and for all. Remember in mid 2008 GWB's simple threat to drill had this very effect by the end of 2008 just imagine if you will what effect actually drilling the holes would have." To sell a better mouse trap you need to produce a better mouse trap" Mike Guinan 1995.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

All fleet sales to GE, GM and OBAMA government in violation of every proper asset acquisition rule every recognized by fleet buyers. But bondholders once thought laws and rules governed their investments as well. It is ironic that the left accuses the right of making the volt a political issue while the only market force working in the volts favor is blatant political favor from the very entities that have a vested interest in the scam that is the volt. GM sells the widget, GE buys the widget, OBAMA uses the process to gain power and dole out rewards to the sycophants. Who cannot see this? The wave election of 2010 (remember 2010? we do.) will be solidified in 2012 and this madness will end. One last point, of the very few volts actually sold to individual customers the average income is over $150K not really the masses with a BMW or MERCEDES sitting next to the volt you bought just to make a statement that you support the current POTUS or more affectionately known by true Americans as the POSIC.

· · 2 years ago

Wow, the trolls are out in force on this article. I guess you really hit a nerve somewhere, Eric. Maybe the fact that these cars persist and are moderately successful has them all on edge.

A theme I'm noticing from the (non-anonymous) comments is that of international Leaf allocation. There are a lot of theories. I too would love to see the sales numbers for the entire world, not just the US. Nissan is not a US company, therefore will not necessarily serve the US first, especially with exchange rates being what they are. Does anyone know where their total sales number (or even production numbers) can be found?

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous

I can't believe you missed your chance to call climate change and air pollution a crock of hooey as well. Standing next to your ICE and proclaiming it is the one and only choice for the future of personal transportation makes you a LUDDITE. By the way, nice job of emphasizing all the catch phrases in your argument (BIG BROTHER, OBAMANATION, AMERICA, GOD, GE, GM...), it makes your contention that you speak for true Americans look more even more authoritative.

· Steven (not verified) · 2 years ago

I’m thinking the real value of EV vs. plug-in hybrid will manifest itself a couple of years down the road. I’ve only had to use my Prius once since I got my LEAF last June. Nevertheless, range IS a problem with its current battery capacity. I fully expect one of my favorite destinations - the top of Mt. Lemmon near Tucson, about 30 miles and 5,000 ft of elevation gain away - will be out of range in a year or two barring a battery upgrade. BUT that still leaves the vast majority of my driving, maybe 90%, that will still be ‘in range’ even after Nissan considers my battery no longer usable, i.e. it’s charging capacity drops below 70% of the new 24kw.

So … How much all-electric driving will Volt owners be doing in a couple of years when their batteries experience comparable degradation? And that little gas engine that will be turning on more and more as their Volts age, what kind of maintenance costs will they be facing?

· · 2 years ago

Sounds like someone's been drinking deeply from the Fox News kool-aid.

I wish I could afford the Volt. It's perfect for 5 days of no gas use for my 15 mile commute and then use the same car for high-mpg out of town trips on the weekend. And it's American made.

· · 2 years ago

I wish we'd hear from a Troll with something original or at least semi-intelligent to say instead of the same old tired self-entitlement-to-gasoline, Obama-hating, evil-coal nonsense (not that I like Obama either).

· Colorado Leaf (not verified) · 2 years ago

Loving my Leaf, but I hope over time either more batteries are added or battery energy density improvements extend its range another 20-50%. With my local Colorado terrain and the cold winter, and not preferring surface streets over freeway going to work, I'd say my true range capability is ~80 miles. I expect summer will yield more like 90. My daily drive is 30-40 miles, but when I run extra errands, I sometimes elect to compromise climate control for range just to preserve margin. Our local mall has a new Tesla store where they are hyping their new sedan. More car than I need, out of my price range, but the 160-300 mile range is pretty awesome. I'd like to imagine that when I pull my Leaf in for a new battery in 2020, the replacement has double the range!

· · 2 years ago

My nephew was an intern for a conservative "think tank" (I use that term lightly) near his school in Virginia where he basically Googled news articles and would then copy/paste a prepared canned responses into the comments section. He showed me some of the prepared comments they used. For one thing a lot of them were way to long, no one really writes like that on a forum. I'm actually surprised Plugincars.com doesn't get more trolls because they can post anonymously and very quickly move on.

· · 2 years ago

@Colorado Leaf,
The approximate cost of an extra 70 miles worth of battery would be about $10,000 to $15,000 at today's prices.
Adding $15,000 to the $30,000 Leaf price brings you to $45,000. This is getting very close to the base Tesla Model S price of $49,000.

· · 2 years ago

Steven, Your concern about degradation of the battery I believe is a little unfounded. I think you will be good for number of years. When it gets warmer you will not have any battery issues.

Hey guys I am conservative too but the junk those two post put out and the delievery of it I would never agree with. Ridiculous. This sight is to wide open.

· Mike Guinan (not verified) · 2 years ago

So anyone who uses logic to point out that the emperor in fact wears no cloths is a troll. I see, agree or you have no right to an opinion based on verifiable fact.
1. NOT REALLY GREEN -- COAL POWER CAR
2. POLITICAL TOOL USED TO REWARD CO-CONSPIRATORS.
3. SALES ARE PRIMARILY FLEET SALES to GM, GE and the BIG BROTHER.
4. MEDIAN INCOME OF INDIVIDUAL VOLT BUYER $150K

FACTS ARE STUBBORN THINGS

· macomberk (not verified) · 2 years ago

Oh yeah, those Volt sales are really sizzling . . like a hot dog that fell through the slot of a grill. Government Motors shut down the product line for five weeks. Epic failure.

· · 2 years ago

If anyone is interested, the research which refutes the trolls can be found in the article "Myths And Facts About Electric Cars". http://mediamatters.org/research/201202080012

· · 2 years ago

@Steven: "So … How much all-electric driving will Volt owners be doing in a couple of years when their batteries experience comparable degradation? And that little gas engine that will be turning on more and more as their Volts age, what kind of maintenance costs will they be facing?"

GM put a 16kWh battery into the Volt. Brand new, the car only uses about 10kWh. That alone will lengthen the life (by not deep-cycling the battery). What's more, the intent is to use a higher percent of the battery capacity as it ages in order to preserve the 10kWh number. For example, if after 8 years, the battery only holds 80%, that is 16 * 0.8 = 12.8kWh. You can still get the "like-new" 10kWh out of that battery, so it should show little to no degradation.

As for maintenance costs for the engine, I'm actually curious about how much they underestimate the effects of NOT turning it on / running it warm very often. I guess time will tell.

· Londo Bell (not verified) · 2 years ago

"As for maintenance costs for the engine, I'm actually curious about how much they underestimate the effects of NOT turning it on / running it warm very often. I guess time will tell."

Agree. Whoever from GM Corp is saying such thing either doesn't know much about auto mechanics or physics/chemistry.

The ICE in a Volt is just the same in terms of technology as any other ICE on the road, and all other ICE on the roads are subject to the wear and tear of nature itself no matter how many miles have been driven, so what type of magical potion has GM included when building Volt's ICE?

· · 2 years ago

Man, it sure would be nice if ALL Leaf and Volt owners would get along and see that we're on the same side. I saw a Volt the other day as I was driving my Leaf to go run and we both gave each other the thumbs up at the same time. That Rocks. We need to keep the infighting down. I have a Leaf for the packaging but I really like the Volt, too. Super nice driving car and better looking than my Leaf. Let's just get along. It's tough enough with the right wing attacks.

· · 2 years ago

On a positive side Hybrids finally firmly crossed 3% market share (3.2%) in February! (due to improving economy and good availability). And the gas price just started to rise in February (now is $3.70 US average). Hybrids crossed 3% market share just twice before - in April 2008 just before recession when gas was nearing $4 (but later pulled back due to limited availability) and second time in July 2009 (Cash for clunkers).

Now gas is on the way to hit US average $4 in March. Will Hybrids cross 4% market share?

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

TO: To Anonymous (not verified) 21 hours ago...

"As a Federal Government worker, let me just say, I resemble that remark. But seriously though, my gov't vehicle is an SUV, I wish I had a Volt."

Whoops...looks like you might not get the chance to get that Volt...GM just pulled the plug on it...suspending production "temporarily". Laying off 1300 employees. (Union workers maybe???...they're probably still getting paid will out digging up dead people to vote for Bwock.)

http://thehill.com/blogs/transportation-report/automobiles/213889-gm-hal...

(Also...good sense of humor with the "I resemble that..." comment. :-)

· · 2 years ago

@Jiminy,
Lest you think I'm a Volt hater because of the critical things I say about it; Let me say that I love the Volt, Volt drivers, and the team at GM that built the Volt. I even appreciate GM for releasing it. I do still hate GM for what they did to the Volt in order to satisfy there own nearsighted, archaic, perceived self-interests. I fear that because of the dumb compromises they made that aren't in the interest of a good PHEV, it will fail and GM may as well.
I, too, waive at Volts and make sure we let our sole Volt driver at my office get equal access to the 240 volt charging stations even though the Leafs truly need it to get home.

· · 2 years ago

Volt payback time is 12 years at $4 a gallon.
LEAF payback time is 7 years at $4 a gallon.

http://www.edmunds.com/industry-center/analysis/will-higher-gas-prices-b...

· Rick (not verified) · 2 years ago

GM sold 7,671 Volts last year, below its original goal of 10,000 cars.

GM plans on Volt sales of 45,000 in 2012. No numbers on how much of that is sales to General Electric (which is going all-Volt, except for field service folk), GM, Government.

Volt sales for the first 2 months total 1,626 - at that rate, it will take over 55 months to meet the 2012 goal of 45,000 cars.

The engine runs on PREMIUM gas.
While batteries in general, including the Volt's, work better in summer than in winter, most drivers prefer air conditioning in hot or humid weather. A/C is a VERY heavy load on the battery. (Look at your summer electric bills).
Battery range is calculated on LEVEL roads --- if you face hills, then YMMV.

1,300 employees at GM's Detroit Hamtramck plant will be temporarily laid off for five weeks as the company halts production of the Chevrolet Volt and its European counterpart, the Opel Ampera.

· Wags (not verified) · 2 years ago

You have to be kidding me. They closed production down for retooling in June for a month, then they closed again for the holidays, and now they they have too much inventory and are closing for 5 weeks. That 3 times in less than one year. Why the latest shut down?

General Motors sold 1023 Chevrolet Volts in February of 2012, but production figures for February totaled 2,347 units. They have 3 months of inventory. My bet is Dealers are refusing to accept them on their lot.

· · 2 years ago

Rick,

The Nissan Leaf uses very little battery power while running the AC, assuming you know how to set the HVAC controls to preclude using the heater to modulate temperature. The resistance heater is the big KW draw on the Leaf and I would assume that this is the same for the Volt as well. The 2012 Leaf comes with heated seats and steering wheel to efficiently warm you up without using the heater in the dash.

· · 2 years ago

ex-EV1 driver,
I have no problem with anything you've said here.

However, we have a difference of opinion about GM's packaging of the Volt. My gut is that the Volt was very carefully configured to satisfy the needs of their target buyer. Seems Volt owners are thrilled with their cars so GM had something right.

· Troll (not verified) · 2 years ago

The current OBAMANATION that holds a loosening grip on power will soon be revealed for the sham that it is. When the forensic analysis is completed on this administration and the political nature of the volt it will be quite clear what was done to the American taxpayer and it will get ugly. Anyone who believes the volt a viable source of transportation for the average consumer is not basing that support on any logic or reason. If you can please explain how this political widget will ever see dollar 1 of profit while reducing production on a product such as an automobile that can only be profitable in large numbers. If you understand the concept behind little things like 'economies of scale' or 'diminishing return' you may have the educational and intellectual foundations to understand this well played theft of billions upon billions of US TAXPAYER treasure. It will in time be revealed but it really is not hard to see if you want to use 30 seconds of critical thinking. BO is counting on most of you being incapable of this due to your lack of true education. While indoctrination can be made to be very similar to education on the surface it is not and is designed to be so.

· · 2 years ago

@Troll,

Do you realize that you work for "oil money" which are 91% outside of USA and mostly hate USA? May be you do.

Do you realize that US imports 50% of its oil consumption? That is $360 billions per year ( at $105 per barrel) of US people's hard earn money sponsoring foreign, hate us, countries instead of investing in US and giving a job to unemployed people?

Volt reason is two fold - to remove US dependence on oil while providing a clean air. Do you know that air pollution kills people? More on EVs reducing air pollution is here:
mediamatters.org/research/201202080012

Of cause it takes time for EVs to evolve, to become cheaper - Volt is just the first step in this way. And yes - it needed a government support to be developed but it is a national priority. You pay taxes for Department of Defense - just see Volt as a part of this tax.

· Troll (not verified) · 2 years ago

Yegor,

Sounds like the proper solution is to access our own unlimited domestic sources rather than be beholden to terrorist but OBBIE likes them and will ensure that they prosper as long as he can. He has stopped every effort to access our energy since day one, current increases in production where started in motion years ago OBBIE's effect will be felt in about 3-4 years. But fear not AMERICA is the greatest country GOD has ever blessed and as long as you are an AMERICAN you will stand tall against the forces that would undermine us.

· Dave (not verified) · 2 years ago

Purchase date for my Black Nissan Leaf was March 2, 2012. Ordered it on December 15. With gas prices shifting higher again, let's see if the next 3 months don't produce a flood of converts. I think the majority of consumers primary motivation is still tied to price at the pump.

· · 2 years ago

Not sure why anonymous posters are allowed to post here. It takes just one troll to poison the discussion.

· · 2 years ago

Personally, I like the idea that you can post anonymously. This invites those that have legitimate opposing input to discussions to contribute without feeling threatened. Without it, the responses would be more one sided. Yes, there is the occasional idiot but these posts can be ignored or deleted if they are abusive. At least this one admitted being a Troll.

· John (not verified) · 2 years ago

Had my Volt for about 2 months now and could not be happier. It drives great and I'm so glad I'm off oil. And to all the Obama haters. This car was developed and was already in the pipeline when bush was in office. GM needed the bailout because they were making tons of gas guzzlers and had too many unsuccessful brands. If half of America had a car like the volt that used a fraction of the gas normal cars use we'd import less oil. The prices of everything would go down because there'd be less demand for oil in general. And we would have cleaner air. And since we import oil more money would stay in this country. Please think about the points I've made. If you disagree with any of them do some research on your own. And please keep an open mind. I really believe electrics are good for the country and good for the world. And by the way. I'm a republican.

· · 2 years ago

@Troll,
Please try to tone down the anti-Obama rhetoric. It is no more healthy than the anti-Bush rhetoric that preceded the last election. I probably hate Obama and most of what he stands for as much as you do so let's agree to agree about this and focus on the real issues.
I also agree that I'd like a lot less government meddling in nearly everything, especially energy. Oil has so many direct and indirect subsidies on it that it is tough for anything else to get a start. The reason it is so difficult to get a new car company going is because government meddling has put so many regulations on anyone trying to build a car that it is essentially too expensive to get started. Tesla is doing a good job navigating around this but they are the only one in over a half century and it is way too early for them to declare victory.
I wish that BO would quit dumping so much into EV subsidies and I wish GWB hadn't dumped so much of my tax money into saving GM from their own stupidity but, unfortunately, it seems that the only way anybody makes it in politics today is to buy votes, disguising it as bailout or subsidy.
I, for one, am glad to be driving an EV. I do tire of hearing everyone on the radio whining about gas prices. If you don't like gas prices, quit buying it! With subsidized EVs, there are somewhat affordable options for many people today yet they still keep complaining.

· · 2 years ago

@Troll, I suppose I should be glad that you are wasting your time posting here because the denizens of this forum are well-informed and aware that most of your assertions are unmitigated BS. For example: "the proper solution is to access our own unlimited domestic sources". The idea that we can drill our way to oil independence is absolutely ludicrous: we have only a tiny percentage of world oil reserves and even if we produced every barrel currently recoverable we would still be dependent on imported oil. And oil prices are set on the world markets so as demand goes up elsewhere even American oil will also rise in price. There is no conceivable way to produce enough oil in this country to affect world oil prices to any significant degree. If you aren't aware of this you are misinformed or deliberately blinded by ideology.

"...as long as you are an AMERICAN you will stand tall against the forces that would undermine us." I'm doing my part by driving an electric car that is entirely powered by domestically generated electricity, in my case from solar panels (my car is charging from sunpower right now, even as I write this). If you are committed to driving oil-powered vehicles you should thank those of us driving EVs because we are leaving more gasoline/diesel for you to use!

· · 2 years ago

@ex-EV1 driver,
Just a correction (or more of a clarification) of you statements. The bulk of the automotive bailout occurred under BO's administration not GWB. GWB did secure some loans (I believe about 17B) to be distributed in the next administration but the bankruptcies and subsequent bailouts of GM and Chrysler occurred in April and May of 2009 under BO.

I believe this bailout will always be controversial. You can never go back in time and see what would have happened if the 2 companies were not assisted and sent into a normal bankruptcy. IMHO I believe that it would have been catastrophic to the entire industry and would have triggered a domino of supplier bankruptcies, millions of lost jobs, and sent the US deeper into recession than we already were. The automotive industry is the last major production industries in the US and a major disruption would have been disastrous. The Auto industry is significantly different from the financial companies that just move money around. The auto industry, there are actual products, manufacturing facilities, and 10s of millions of jobs that are directly or indirectly tied to it.

· · 2 years ago

@regman,
I agree with your concern about the catastrophic event, however, I also fear that by propping up the status quo, we still have the same bunch of morons controlling our financial system that caused the whole mess. A good financial crash would have driven a lot of those fools to jump out of their Wall Street corner windows and from the chaos, hopefully a workable order would have arisen.
A lot of my smart friends who refused to buy over-priced houses certainly would be homeowners now but, since the prices have all been held ridiculously high by the bank bailout, it still doesn't make sense.
I fear we've just postponed the inevitable and the collapse will only be worse.
Of course we'll never know what could have happened.

· · 2 years ago

@ex-EV1 driver,
"Please try to tone down the anti-Obama rhetoric." ...."I probably hate Obama and most of what he stands for as much as you do..."

*cough* hypocrite *cough*

· · 2 years ago

I'm not sure I see where my hypocrisy is. I'd like to get politics out of EVs. We all need them, irregardless of our other political views.

· Objective (not verified) · 2 years ago

@Loveday: I think your main article still has an uncorrected error: "with General Motors reporting it sold 1,203 units in February 2012", except that the actual sales number was1,023, and while that is almost a 70% increase, most people wouldn't say that is nearly double. (Further down in your own story you have 2012 Volt YTD sales at 1626, and before that January 2012 sales at 603, so your own numbers don't add up.)

I've been too busy lately to post a reply to some of the folks here on some other details, and can't even recall which article we had been discussing things on, but I don't really see much value in keeping it up anyway. People don't always agree. Sometimes never. For the record, I believe that neither Volt nor Leaf is a very good solution for me, or for the majority of Americans. I think that much more substantial and revolutionary advances will be developed and brought to market.

· · 2 years ago

@ex-EV1 driver,
"I'm not sure I see where my hypocrisy is." That's strange, because I can see it really clear from here. :-)

"I'd like to get politics out of EVs." Fine, me too. Which political party made EVs political in the first place?

· · 2 years ago

@indyflick,
I believe it was the damned Republicans (as opposed to the intelligent ones), why?

· Deb (not verified) · 2 years ago

i drove a volt for the first time today. it was sweet. great ride. great acceleration. the demo was getting 115 mpg. i'm trying to figure out how to afford one.

· · 2 years ago

@Mike Guinan

Michael J. Guinan, former co-publisher of Hartford Magazine?

· · 2 years ago

@indyflick,
I think I'm understanding what may be rubbing you wrong. I'm sorry.
I figure I'm doing the liberals a favor by trying to convince conservatives to lay off the politics. If a liberal tries, the conservative can just continue with the politics. If a conservative like me does it, then the conservative can possibly get past the politics and look at the subject.

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Getting a leaf next week without ever testdriving ANY electric car. Why? It fulfills 95% of my driving needs, the rest is vacation and I am still free to choose any rental car at my destinations. I don't care about climate change, but my local environment IS important to me. I really hate all those ignorant idiots warming their cars by idling their engines next to the school/kindergarten. By the way, the leaf is also cheaper than a comparable VW bluemotion and I am grateful to the Norwegian government for the tax free sale of BEVs this way I save money from day 1 since charging is also free of charge ;-) at my employer and to round it up it is at least 90% renewable energy as long as the rain keeps falling in Norway.

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous getting Leaf next week,
Let us know how you like it in reality.

· Mike Guinan (not verified) · 2 years ago

ex-EV1

Good news GM is halting production of the volt due to no demand. They are stacking up at the dealerships like cord wood and most dealers are now refusing to accept any more of these POS cars. So it came to pass much quicker than even I thought it would now that even GM, GE and GOV fleet sales could not keep this POS afloat. In reference to a great marketing story 'maybe the dogs do not like the dog food' how true it is and thanks GOD for free market forces that control capitalism in this great nation.

· · 2 years ago

@Mike Guinan,
Are you the same "Troll" over on the "The SHS Chevy Volt Project Exceeds Expectations" thread? I'm thinking not. I wish you folks would get a handle so we'd know we're talking with the same person.
Have you driven a Volt or are you judging it to be a POS from something you read on the internet. I'd say that next to the 'vette, its the best performing car in the Chevy lineup.
My friends with Volts don't really care about the price of gasoline because they rarely use it.
I have major complaints about how GM designed the Volt and even more about the lousy way they have been trying to sell it. It is sad that they are yet again blowing their chance to lead the auto industry into the future as oil prices become unreachable. They're also ripping of us, the taxpayers because they took so much federal money.
Too bad the Japanese (Nissan) is poised to take over. Let's just hope that Tesla takes care of America in the future because Detroit isn't. Both of these folks started out without tax payer's money although neither turned it down when offered.

· · 2 years ago

@Mike Guinan (not verified),
Welcome to the discussion! You're staying on message, like you're suppose to. Some on this board may have thought I was believing in an unfounded conspiracy theory. But your post included some key words that I remembered from a post my nephew actually made several months ago about the Volt.
http://www.m.chiefsplanet.com/showthread.php?t=253177

By the way, ex-EV1 driver is actually a conservative, but he hasn't yet grasp how his political party has degenerated to this point.

· Mike Guinan (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Exev1

I will go slow here and try and explain this one more time. Supply and demand control prices; always have always will. Now follow me here, supply and demand in mid 2008 created a price of 136 per barrel and 4-5 per gallon. GWB then signed an EO (honest attempt to reduce oil prices = success) opening both coast to drilling for oil and gas on slightest threat of more supply the price dropped to 36 a barrel and under 2 per gal. OK then BO came in and signed an EO (political payback to the greenies) reversing the EO GWB had signed this was a confirmation of reduced supply which has resulted in oil now over 100 a barrel and gas over 4 a gal. When we actually drill that will be a quantifiable increase in supply and the price will again as always drop accordingly. Now to the question of peak oil (a threat of reduced supply is all that is from opec) if we were running out in the 1970's why do we continually discover previously unknown reserves of oil and gas that dwarf the last discovery of previously unknown reserves. Do you get it yet, supply is being controlled to keep the price high this is OPEC's contribution to the world. Energy independence would manifest itself in an American energy policy that produces all domestic needs first and sells the excess on the world market. If needed we could store the excess to hold wealth and pay down our debts in oil backed transactions.

· · 2 years ago

@Mike Guinan (not verified),
I think ex-EV1 driver gets it, you don't have to explain slow. You can do copy/paste. We all get it.

· Lurker (not verified) · 2 years ago

@Anonymous (not verified)

"Getting a leaf next week...I save money from day 1 since charging is also free of charge ;-) at my employer..."

You're kidding me. You really think it's free? Sheesh...

I'm not even going to address the "without ever testdriving ANY electric car." part of your comment.

· Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it (not verified) · 2 years ago

@ Lurker
Well, it's hardly your problem anyway if I decide to light a campfire with 60000 bucks (for that is what the Leaf costs taxfree in Norway including winter tires), though I am pretty sure that this campfire is going to warm me the coming 5 years even if it's the first time I start it. And be assured the VW is even more expensive and if you knew the VW dealer and Diesel/gasoline prizes here, you would know that this gasoline fire would warm someone else than me. For the time being fuel prices here are 3-4 bucks per liter (not per gallon). And yes, charging is for free in the monetary sense at the university where I work... and if you think about renewable energy. Norway as a whole uses about 60% renewable energy and in the area I live in (70 degree north) there is only electricity from renewable energy available, believe it or not. Actually the water which feeds the river next to my house has enough potential energy to feed all the houses within 10 km, only this water like most others runs freely all year and is dissipating all its kinetic energy into the ocean. The only way I could loose money is actually if Nissan bites the dust and the Leaf will not work the 5 years I plan to use it. In that case you could have your laugh and I would probably weep, but certainly not for the money, rather for the opportunity lost to change my local environment.

There are probably close to 1000 Leafs driving around in Norway and the Leaf is on Nr. 8 of the sales list of new cars. Not bad for a country of around 4000000 inhabitants with oil enough to make a living. And waiting time is also nice, I ordered 3 weeks ago and they said it was approximately 2 months... but turned out to be only one.
And again I am an egoist and I hate the smell of gasoline and exhaust fumes, that's why my sailboat is also going to get an electric engine asap because every time I start the gas engine it really pisses me of, although I only have to run it for the few minutes to get the boat out of the harbor. In fact I already removed the gas tank, the origin of the smell. If I was a real sailor I would not install an engine at all, after all it is a sailboat, and there are many boats of the same size as mine cruising happily around the world driven only by the sun.
In the end I am happy to being able to afford the luxury of not having to run a gasoline engine close to me in the near future. Anybody else is free to do what one seems appropriate as long as he keeps his distance, which really is no problem in a country like Norway. The kindergarten of my kids has banned idling from its premises and I will do my best to convince the school to do the same. By the way, I am not a Norwegian, but an immigrant, so don't blame them for my opinion. However, trolls are a very Norwegian invention and date back to the times when nobody but maybe the very people in this country knew about the existence of some obscure continent somewhere beyond the horizon.
And last but not least, today I convinced someone else (who lives close by) to buy an electric car just by mentioning that I did. And they have never even thought about electric cars before. So if there is a few million people and trolls who think I am stupid, then be assured I am certainly not the only one :-)

· Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it (not verified) · 2 years ago

@exEV1driver

I will write about my (and especially my wifes) experiences with the Leaf. I am pretty sure that I know what I have coming, but she is in for a surprise, hopefully positive, since range is not an issue. In fact it was her idea to take a family vacation and fetch the car. We take the plane the 1000 km to the next Leaf dealership and then come back together with the car, not driving but cruising along the beautiful Norwegian coast. The car will just be loaded as freight. Funny enough this way the transport of the car is almost free. Without the passengers only the car would cost more than our whole family and the car and the fight. Food, however, is expensive on the boat, so the coastal cruisers are getting their share, but we will have a nice cruise people from all around the world come to Norway for.
By the way, mentioning the Americas as an obscure continent in my previous post was not meant as an insult to Americans, it was meant as a metaphor for those who think there is no life without oil. Back in the times of the Vikings Europeans thought one would drop of the edge if traveling far enough out on the sea... only the Norwegians dared to test this hypothesis. Let's see how it is with the electric cars. Last year 1,5 % of all cars sold in Norway were electric... The only ones I have ever seen are the Th!nk and iMiev, but I didn't test those, since they are too small anyway. The reason that there are so few electric cars up North were I live is that people are more conservative than in the South. Where I live is about 100 km more Southerly than Barrow/Alaska. However, thanks to the gulf stream the minimal temperature is never below - 20 degree Celsius and in the summer barely 20 degree C warm, which seems not to be a big problem for the Leaf according to people living in Southern Norway, where it actually gets much colder. They report a little more than 60% of the summer range which is more than enough for me especially with the speed limits here being 60 km/h :-)

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it
I look forward to hearing how your Leaf works for you.
I've only been about 10 feet into Norway when I was in the Navy but I cruised through the inland passage and can say I've never seen more beautiful countryside.
Some of us in America would rather be obscure than getting blamed for all of the world's problems as is so convenient today.
I'm not going to get into whether Norwegians or Danes were the first brave enough to sail west :-)
I do wish Ford hadn't trashed the Th!nk and improved it instead. It was too small to be of much use but it was a start in the right direction.

· · 2 years ago

@ Red Leaf

Where in Australia can I get a leaf. I heard they were not going to be available until June at the earliest.

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it,

First, congratulations on your purchase. I doubt you will be disappointed. Do consider creating an account and sharing your experiences with us all.

It caught my eye that you are a sailor. I own a small (22') sailboat. I traded in the old loud, smelly gasser for a torqeedo electric last summer, and couldn't be happier! I highly recommend it (check the specs that it'll work for you, they've held true for me)

Oh, and btw, even when the Vikings "discovered" a distant continent, there were others who already knew about it - the natives that lived here for at least a millennium before ;-)

· · 2 years ago

@ Brian Swerdt

(SmilingWhenSailing = Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it)

Thank you. The account is created so I will start to post my experience next week. I get the Leaf on Friday, but the boat trip will take two whole days and driving the car onto a boat most probably doesn't count as an experience with driving a Nissan Leaf.
And no, I didn't forget about the Native Americans, I should have written that probably nobody in Europe, but the Vikings knew about the continent. Of course it hat been discovered before. My fault, I should have been more precise :-).
I actually came across your comments on the Toreqeedo 1003 and your sailboat last autumn and it might be an alternative for me. You are one of the few who actually writes something about the experience using it on a sailboat. It would certainly be a very interesting minimal engine outfit for a sailboat and if it had the possibility to use it on an external battery pack, I would have already bought it, but as I said, I am no real sailor and sometimes want/need to get home on a schedule and can't wait for the wind to blow.

By the way, and back to the main topic. It seems that the Volt/Ampera was announced "The Car of the Year" . Last year it was the Leaf... Maybe there is hope for this plugin-hybrid too? At least they are publishing a lot about it in Germany (probably due to lobbying activities of Opel). Though nobody seems to realize that it is a hybrid since it is mentioned as an electric car.

· · 2 years ago

"Car of the Year 2012" in Europe that is.

· Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seing it (not verified) · 2 years ago

Got the Leaf today. First time in an electric car and though I only have driven 50 electric kilometers (in two different Leafs) I am more than happy with my decision to buy a Leaf. It remains to be seen what the rest of the family thinks... the car is full of summer tires right now so there is no space left for passengers. The next two days we are on the boat and then the real experience will start.

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seeing it

I have traveled to purchase cars before - flying in and driving home - but I never took a boat!!!! I love your commitment, and I hope your efforts are rewarded with a reliable, efficient automobile suited to your needs.

· Anonymous who bought a Leaf without ever seeing ir (not verified) · 2 years ago

After nearly one week of driving the Leaf in Northern Norwegian winter: It seems to be a perfect fit. Range anxiety did not kick in yet, but it's only 18 km to work, and I seem to get a range around 100 km with the heating on, which is exactly what I expected and more than I need. Will try to reduce to 80% charge. Love to g
et to/from work in a prewarmed car and fortunately the rest of the family likes it too. Time will tell if it is also reliable. If it is, it was my best car buy so far, in spite of the high price tag.

· · 2 years ago

@Anonymous who bought a Leaf, Congratulations on the LEAF purchase. Sounds as if you made a major effort to get one. Keep us posted on how it goes there in northern Norway. I think Norway must have the highest proportion of EVs by population of any country!

· Engnrng (not verified) · 2 years ago

After starting to read a couple of the political tirades, I was able to skip the rest, including the responses. Advice to EV Forum people - ignore the trolls. If you respond, you feed their egos and you will never ever affect their beliefs even a tiny bit. Just scroll on by.

I would like to hear more from people who have personal experience with EV's. Thanks!

· · 2 years ago

I put up $100 to get my name on the waiting list for a Nissan Leaf around August 2010. In August 2011 I ordered my Leaf. I picked it up on January 8th 2012 and now have close to 3700 miles on it. I absolutely love what I call my "Bugeyed Rollerskate". Drving 56 miles round trip to work in my Leaf costs me less than $30 per month. I still have my previous daily driver that is my road trip vehicle; a 1998 K1500 Suburban LT. I figure I am saving $200 per month in fuel costs alone.

The Volt and other plug in hybrids offer the security of knowing you can get home. I use the information my Leaf provides me to ensure I can get home or plan a trip within my range. Charging to 80%, I get home with range to spare even using the Air Conditioning like I have the last few days. In either case you save money on gasoline. With the Leaf, there is practically no routine maintenance, not even an oil change for the gear box. Though infrequent, the Volt's generator will need oil, filters and plugs.

If you can live with the range and have a I.C.E. for the family vaca, EV is the way to go!

· Anonymous (not verified) · 2 years ago

Can't wait until the Toyota Rave4 Electric comes out. I like the new options, I am looking forward to the current EV's out there showing how well they will perform over time and how little maintenance will be required compared to an ICE.

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