Can Fuel Cells Help the Battery EV Market?

Lisa,
What is the conversion efficiency? Why is this better than an ICE?

@lectrcninja . . .

Although I'm not going to instantly defend the above described hydrogen fuel cell without asking for more information, you might want to actually READ this article before you slam it.

The sort of fuel (justifiably, I think) taken to task in the film is exactly what is described above in the "Typical Hydrogen Fuel Cell" illustration. This "old" one required pure hydrogen to be fed into the car's tank and has all the related disadvantages: an expensive - and dirty - fuel to distill, not supported by the current petroleum infrastructure (pipelines, etc.) to get it from refinery to consumer, and the energy density for pure hydrogen also being very poor. Hence, the range on those vehicles profiled in the film was very poor.

Newer fuel cell development, apparently, allows for more conventional sorts of fuels to be used in the vehicle and an onboard reformer is used to distill the hydrogen. Still not all that practical in its nascent form (the article touches on this,) but the newer generation reformer-coupled cell that is being discussed here is touted as cleaner, lighter and more efficient. Is it better than what a current generation cleaner-burning ICE can do? I don't know. But let's wait for forthcoming details and pose informed questions, instead of immediately accusing the author of not doing "ANY" research.

We're going to be witnessing the development of things like algae-based biofuels in the next few years for devices where batteries simply aren't applicable (jet aircraft engines, etc.) It's conceivable that these fuels can be used in reformer-type fuel cells and do a better job dealing with hydrocarbons than the ICE units we're using in our cars now.

Remember: the finished product of a fuel cell is electricity. Fuel cell cars contain electric motors to (childhood book alert) "make the wheels go 'round and 'round." Instead of having just a fuel cell and electric motor, like seen in "Who Killed The Electric Car," a future electric/cell hybrid car may still be primarily a battery vehicle that could also have a very small fuel cell on board, which feeds off of an environmentally clean liquid fuel to keep those batteries charged for a very long time . . . and give it a very long range.

There are a few individuals in Europe who have taken the G-Wiz and added a fuel cell to create a portable range extender. One design is small enough to fit in the luggage bay under the hood, whilst others are put in the back of the car. The fuel cell can feed constant power into the batteries, both whilst the car is being used and whilst it is stationery.

The fuel cell itself is not powerful enough to extend the range to infinity, but can extend the range of a single journey. It can also recharge the car whilst it is stationery allowing it to do several longer journeys where it is not always possible to recharge the car at each stop.

The benefit of this system is that the fuel cell system is only ever used for longer journeys and not touched for day-to-day journeys.

Boy, this is why I like hanging out here. Direct ethanol fuel cells and thermo-photovoltaic panels? I'd never heard of these things before. Here's a link to ACTA's site with the product page I assume you're talking, Priusmaniac . . .

http://www.actagroup.it/products_fuel.asp

Michael . . . what brand of small fuel cells are the G-Wiz folks in Europe using?

As for TPV panels, Priusmaniac, are you suggesting that these be built onto the roof of
an EV . . . or be deployed in larger stationary installations, as you would typically find more conventional PV panels being used today?

Some people apparently don't understand the practicle reason for a range extended EV.

Any range extender needs to have the following qualities.
1. Ubiquitous fuel source, so that it can be easily refueled anywhere in the country/world
2. Very high energy density, so that a small amount of fuel can propel long distances
3. Cheap conversion from fuel to electric/motive power

Currently the only fuel that meets the above criteria is gasoline/diesel. The only innovation that has a chance is anything that makes the conversion from fuel to electricity a lot more efficient and cheap (that would be very difficult).

By the time we get 1 million hydrogen stations in the country (i.e. never) I suspect we won't need range extenders since the battery would have improved so much and we would have 1 million fast charging stations that charge 500 mile range battery packs in 5 minutes.

@EVNow,
I agree completely with your assertion that a Range Extender should run off of a ubiquitous fuel, however, I think you may have missed that Enerfuel is using a reformer to strip the Hydrogen (H2) out of "any commercial fuel" to form the H2 for the fuel cell.
I've seen the reformer approach work from a technical perspective but its downside is that it requires yet more energy to be wasted. This is why I've asked about the conversion efficiency - and have received no response.
If they have some sort of very efficient reformer technology and they're getting good conversion efficiency with easily controllable waste byproducts (Carbon and Nitrogen molecules), I can see how this could provide a zero-emissions way to use petrochemicals.
I am, however, highly skeptical and, until I hear some plausible answers to my conversion efficiency question, will consider this just another Farce coming out of the Fuel Cell community.

@Lisa Jerram,
Thanks for the info those are about the general tank-to-wheel efficiencies I'd expect for a standard low temperature PEM fuel cell operating at the right points. I'll guess that the reformer knocks off another 25% or so from the efficiency, placing this pretty close to an ICE hybrid.
Its probably a win on emissions but a fail on cost.
You aren't likely to find much love for fuel cells within the BEV community. This is mainly for 2 reasons:
1. They are a lot less efficient than BEVs. This is seen from from pump-to-wheel efficiency or for the amount of PV we'd have to install on our roofs to go a mile.
2. Even with mass production potential, their costs asymptotically approach a level that appears to be too high to be viable.
3. The promise of fuel cells was the excuse used to kill the California ZEV mandate with great promises which, at the time, we all predicted wouldn't stand the test of time - and they haven't.
I appreciate your attempt to show how fuel cells might help the BEV market, however, I believe that while there may be some benefits to the BEV market, the detriments so greatly outweigh them that there is no sense in considering them.
Thanks for joining this discussion though. I would be interested in hearing the efficiency hit that the reformer takes.

@lektrcninja,
Thanks for the confirmation about the energy limitations of electrolysis! I'm glad you science teacher is a lot smarter than our government officials. Keep the faith (and keep everyone honest) and maybe you and your generation won't have to be oil slaves like my generation is.