BMW Holds Electric Car Sneak Preview in NYC

By Tom Moloughney · November 09, 2011

BMW had what they called a “Special Sneak Peak Event” today at Center 548 gallery today in New York City. It was the first time BMW showed the i3 and i8 in North America. While the cars will make their first official public appearance later this month at the Los Angeles Auto Show, this event gave the press an early look.

Both concept cars were there, as well as an ActiveE. There were presentations by Richard Kim, exterior designer of the i3 & i8, and Rich Steinberg, manager of electric vehicle operations and strategy.

There weren’t any big new revelations, I think BMW just wanted to give the east coast journalists an opportunity to photograph the cars and ask questions—in case they couldn’t make the Los Angeles show.

A Clean Start

Mr. Steinberg’s presentation focused on how the dedicated platform of the i3 has allowed BMW to maximize the interior and luggage space. He had video that showed how complicated it was to retrofit the electric drivetrain in the 1-series platform with the necessary reinforcements and the compromises needed to make it work. BMW isn’t going to be retrofitting internal combustion engine cars into electric vehicles. All of the cars in the i line will be purpose-built, designed from the ground-up as electric vehicles.

Mr. Kim talked about how he and his team started with a clean sheet of paper—and even moved its operations to a new location, separate from everyone else, to work on the i3 and i8 exterior design. This was such a break from their traditional design they wanted the whole process to be different. They wanted to give the i line a distinctive trademark, a common theme that will be incorporated into all of the cars in the sub-brand.

What they came up with is called “stream flow.” The sides of the cars will have two horizontal lines that sweep down the side of the car from the front to the rear where they converge into the C pillar. This streaming signature style is meant to represent streaks of air flowing down the side of the car while it is in a wind tunnel.

One of the things that struck me was how much space the interior had. It really looked like the inside of an SUV. It’s a compact hatchback that’s only 151.4 inches long but it really felt much larger, perhaps because it’s very wide. The width is listed at 79.2 inches, but it’s definitely not that wide. (The X5 is only 76 inches wide.) I think the measurement includes the side mirrors for some reason. However it is definitely wider than any car in its class that I’ve seen. The flat floor and bench-like seats also contributed to the open-air feeling. This also makes is easy for any passenger to exit from either side regardless of where they are sitting.

No Wimpiness

Of course the use of carbon fiber reinforced plastics and aluminum was discussed, and we were promised the i3 will have the dynamic driving experience that BMW customers expect. Mr. Steinberg mad it clear this wouldn’t be a wimpy little city car. It will accelerate from zero to 60mph in less than 8 seconds, and will offer great handling and exceptional maneuverability. It will have a tight turning radius and have great outward vision due to the exceptionally large windows especially in the rear hatch that is all glass. This will allow the driver to easily maneuver and park in tight city streets.

Mr. Steinberg talked a little about the range extender for the i3 called REx, but gave no details other than to say customers that need more range will have the option of ordering the range-extender. It will have a very small gasoline engine—rumored to be a motorcycle engine—and a very small fuel tank of only a couple gallons. It will add 100 miles of additional range to the 100-mile EV range and will have no connection to the wheels. It will only charge the battery. Hmm, where did we hear that before?

About the author

· Tom Moloughney

Tom recently completed his 2 1/2 year stint in BMW's MINI-E trial lease program. He was the first retail customer of a BMW ActiveE and was presented the keys to the car by BMW North American President, Ludwig Willisch on January 13th, 2012. The ActiveE is currently his primary daily-driving car.

Tom is an passionate EV advocate as well as a proponent of US energy independence. Tom ...

Full bio · 703 posts

Comments

· jerry (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

Nice job. I'm starting to really think I may be buying an i3 in 2 years. If they can keep it reasonably priced at around 40-45k then I think I'm in.

· Ad van der Meer · 26 weeks ago

How can a BMW i3 city car be reasonably priced at 40-45k when you can buy a Tesla Model S at 57K?

· SVL (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

This looks like this could be a good EV that will appeal to the general public. I guess everything will depend on price and availability. But BMWs are never cheap, of course

· Anonymous (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

How can a BMW i3 city car be reasonably priced at 40-45k when you can buy a Tesla Model S at 57K?

Maybe because $40,000 is $17,000 less than $57,000 and maybe everyone that can afford a $40,000 car can't necessarily afford a $57,000 car.
Plus some people simply don't want a car as large as the model S. It's way too big for me.

· NeilBlanchard · 26 weeks ago

Very nice. There is too much glass (which is a fault of many concept cars) but most of the rest is great!

A true serial hybrid will be a good thing. And there is a "pure" electric i3 as well, right?

Neil

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

Neil: Obviously the glass doors and roof will be lost on the production version. However Rich Steinberg did say it will have a lot of glass surface which adds to the open feeling you have while sitting in it. Also, I do think the rear hatch will still be mostly glass. Richard Kim talked about the advantages of having such good rear outward vision for city driving and parallel parking.
Yes, the pure electric version will be what is first released, which is confirmed to be sometime in 2013. Then, shortly after you will be able to order it with the REx as an option. There have been no word on how much that will cost. While pricing for the i3 hasn't been announced, BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer recently said the i3 will cost "less then a 5 series sedan". List price for a new 528i is currently $42,000 so that would be about where I expect the i3 pricing to start.

· theflew (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

"A true serial hybrid will be a good thing. And there is a "pure" electric i3 as well, right?"

I'm surprised GM just doesn't add a software switch so that people that want brag they have a "true" serial hybrid can get 10%-15% less efficiency but happy because it's a serial hybrid.

· NeilBlanchard · 26 weeks ago

[/Bites Tongue]

I hope the "slim" seats stay in the production version, and in general, the aerodynamics look pretty decent. Any word on the Cd of the i3? I wonder if the rear-hinged rear doors will make it into production?

I like the glass hatch. But the lower parts of the doors; not so much. Trivia Q: what car was the first with an all-glass hatch?

Neil

· ex-EV1 driver · 26 weeks ago

@theflew,
I'm not sure what you mean. A software switch won't remove the power-splitting transmission from a Volt.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

Neil, no there is no official CD listing, I asked. They did talk about the design and how it was form following function and meant to be aerodynamic. The underside is flat, like a model S. If you see the picture above I was trying to get a clear shot of the underside so you could see how smooth it is, but the lighting wasn't right to get a good look.
The rear hinged doors will definitely make it into production. One thing that was interesting is how the door hinges are so radically different than what we are used to seeing. They said it was because the CFRP & plastic panels are so drastically lighter than conventional doors that they aren't going to use conventional hinges. Sorry I didn't post pictures of the hinges. I'm going to post a lot more pictures of the car on my blog, when I do I'll post the link if Brad doesn't mind.

Also, I didn't go into much detail about the range extender, but there's a lot of indications that it's a inline two-cylinder engine that's 600 to 650cc.
It will utilize start/stop technology (not sure why since it's just charging the batteries) and it will definitely be rated as a Super-Ultra Low Emissions Vehicle (SULEV), which is the lowest-emission rating that gas engines can have.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

I just found a video of the event if anyone is interested:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=DnFcUzjw95Y

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

"BMW CEO Norbert Reithofer recently said the i3 will cost "less then a 5 series sedan". List price for a new 528i is currently $42,000 so that would be about where I expect the i3 pricing to start."

528i base retail price seems to be 45,050. Invoice is 41,445. Destination 875.

http://autos.msn.com/research/vip/default.aspx?ICID=FAC&state=new&make=B...

So, $44,995 ? More importantly, I'd like to see a good lease plan. i3 is at the top of my list to get once my Leaf lease ends in 2014 Feb.

BTW, I sould add. Hopefully the MSRP is below the 5 series - not the post-tax credit. I do think $45k is probably the most MSRP i3 could go for if they want strong sales. As they get closer to Tesla S range, people will fing i3 not good value.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

EVNow: You are correct about the list price. I did a quick search and somewhere had the list of the base 528i @ $42,200 which is incorrect.

I don't think there is any way he was referring to post rebate price. He wasn't speaking specifically about the US market anyway and I will personally be very surprised if the MSRP is above a 5 series. I agree with you, if it's close to $50,000 it's not going to sell well at all. The people within BMW really expect it to sell well, and have publicly stated that 30,000 units per year is what they expect. Privately I believe they expect to sell more of them though. I don't think they would expect to sell that many of them if they were pricing it above 45K. My early guess is $42,750. Of course I reserve the right to modify that guess as time passes :)

There is one journalist that claims he was told by a high level BMW employee (someone that would know) that the price will be $35,000. There is no way the MSRP is going to be that low, so I'm figuring he meant after the $7,500 rebate, thus my $42,750 guess. If that holds, I think it's going to sell very well.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

"There is one journalist that claims he was told by a high level BMW employee (someone that would know) that the price will be $35,000. There is no way the MSRP is going to be that low, so I'm figuring he meant after the $7,500 rebate, thus my $42,750 guess. If that holds, I think it's going to sell very well."

Looks like a good guess. FFE will really struggle, if that is the case. Would I buy a Ford or a BMW for about the same price (and similar internal dimensions, perhaps).

BTW, any idea what they mean by 2013 ? Is it like Leaf/FFE/Volt (i.e. a few sold in December of 2013) or a MY2013 that gets sold starting middle of the year ?

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

BTW, any idea what they mean by 2013 ? Is it like Leaf/FFE/Volt (i.e. a few sold in December of 2013) or a MY2013 that gets sold starting middle of the year?

Not really, just rumblings of Q3 but nothing concrete. It will be a 2014 model so it will definitely be the 2nd half of the year. The promising news is that I constantly hear (from multiple insiders) that they are ahead of schedule.

And for interior dimensions, I've sat in the focus EV, the i3 has much more room inside. It's very spacious for a compact. The flat floor and bench seats really open it up. I only put up one good interior picture here. If you give me your email address I can send you some if you would like.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

"And for interior dimensions, I've sat in the focus EV, the i3 has much more room inside. It's very spacious for a compact."

Interesting. I don't know whether you have seen dimension comparison of EVs (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=6715) - but i3 is 20 inches shorter in length than FFE !

I suggest you upload the photos to one of the photo sharing sites and post the link here (and my email is using gmail and evnow0).

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

The chart looks nice, great work. You can update the i3 a bit with the following if you desire:

Battery is 22kWh
Motor has 170hp

I know they haven't released the official range yet, but it not going to be what you have listed at 65. BMW is stating 80hwy/100city. That's basically what the MINI-E and ActiveE are capable of. Under ideal conditions you should be able to get 110 to 120.
If I were in charge of the graph, I'd list 90. I think that will be very close to what the average person will get on a daily basis. I've had lots of discussions about range with BMW. They know they can't sell a "premium electric vehicle" and give it mediocre range. Notice the first two cars (MINI-E & ActiveE) have both had 100 mile ranges.

In the future if I get other info for the graph I'll forward it to you.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

I forgot to mention, there is also some data to support the range.

On the FTP72 cycle range test, the MINI-E had a range of 240 km(148 miles) This test is similar to the LA-4 cycle test which the MINI-E scored a range of 156 miles.

On the same FTP72 cycle range test, the i3 recently achieved 225 km(140 miles) This leads me to believe the range will be very similar to the MINI-E, just slightly less, thus the 90mpc average.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

Interesting info about the range.

With 22kwh (ie. 8% less than Leaf) - and 600 pounds less weight (20% less) - I expect about the same EPA range as Leaf - perhaps a little higher. 75 to 77 miles. Generally x% decrease in weight increases range by about X/2% - ofcourse battery capacity will have a 1:1 impact on range.

The way EPA calculates is that after getting city & highway miles, they put a 30% reduction in range to account for real life conditions. Leaf's average (city+highway) range was slightly above 100 miles. That is what gave them 73 miles range after the EPA 30% reduction.

That is the reason I think i3 would also get about 75 miles.

BTW, do Active-E / Mini-E have an EPA range ?

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

BTW, about the 170 HP motor, that seems a little high given the 250 Nm torque. For eg. Leaf has a 107 hp motor with 280 Nm torque. While it is possible construct a motor like that - it is unlikely. So either the 170 HP or the 250 Nm for i3 is not correct.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

Nope. It's correct, I'm 100% certain. It has 170hp(I've also seen it listed at 168) and 184lb-ft torque(250Nm).

It's exactly what the ActiveE has because it's the same motor & power electronics, you can look that up all over the web. When I went to Munich last month, they talked a lot about this so I'm positive that is what the i3 will have. Etch it in stone.

· NeilBlanchard · 26 weeks ago

The higher horsepower may mean that they are using shorter gearing (with more reduction), so the motor is spinning faster? HP = Torque X RPM if I am not mistaken.

On the aero, the flat bottom and (apparently) flat wheel covers are both good. The overall shape is critical -- there has to be a taper toward the back. The roof looks like it does taper, but the sides not so much. There is a reasonably crisp Kamm back, and the two blue fins under the rear bumper are likely acting as a diffuser. The leading edges of the front fenders are forming strakes to smooth the air flow around the tires. There are vestigial rear strakes in front of the rear wheels, but behind the rear wheels not so much. Partial rear wheel skirts would help a lot; as the upper part of the spinning wheel is moving forward at 2X the speed of the car.

I also like the upright seating -- I find this better for long drives, and you see better as well. It provides more legroom without adding length. As I mentioned before, the "slim" seats make a lot of sense -- they are ergonomically supportive and not having thick padding saves both weight and space. The saved space means saved chassis size, which saves more weight.

Hopefully the glass they keep will hopefully be low-e to exclude as much infrared/heat as possible.

Neil

· goldenfooler (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

The glass in could easily stay in the back. Its in the Volvo C30 for the past couple of years.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

I hope they keep the all glass hatch also, it really looked cool. Especially with the taillights and the BMW logo seemingly suspended in air(the reflections in the pictures don't do it justice). Talking about the taillights, notice the "u" shape of them. It's the same as the headlights. This will be another common characteristic of the "i" cars. Kim said this theme will be on all the cars(you've heard of the i3 & i8 but there are at least two more in development) because they want you to know immediately what just passed you on the highway by the distinctive lamps.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

Any comments from BMW on what, if any, quick charge option the car will have ?

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

From the BMW i3 website:
"The battery can be fully recharged in four hours using an installed wallbox. If a DC-fast charger is used an 80 per cent charge can be achieved in around 30 minutes."

As for what, it's pretty clear now that they have agreed along with GM, Ford, VW, Audi, Daimler, Chrysler, Porsche, and Volkswagen to use the a plug based on the J1772 connector standard with the DC connectors directly below it.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

"As for what, it's pretty clear now that they have agreed along with GM, Ford, VW, Audi, Daimler, Chrysler, Porsche, and Volkswagen to use the a plug based on the J1772 connector standard with the DC connectors directly below it."

VW apparently will use CHADEMO in Europe. Apparently manufacturers can "support" one std and use another ;-)

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

I guess we'll see. Everything I'm reading say's VW along with the others will use the SAE standard in Europe & the US:

"That’s what happened last week when Audi, BMW, Ford, General Motors, Mercedes-Benz, Porsche, and Volkswagen all agreed on a standard plugto use for “fast-charging” their electric cars in the United States and Europe. A “fast” charge can recharge an electric car to 80 percent of its full capacity in about a half hour. Charging any more quickly
or fully would damage the battery and dramatically reduce its lifespan. The new plugs will use the standard SAE J1772 120/240-volt plug above two pins for fast charging when it’s available."

"In an effort to streamline the process of charging electric vehicles, seven major automakers - Audi, BMW, Daimler, Ford, GM, Porsche and Volkswagen - have agreed to a single rapid charging system. The harmonized electric vehicle charging solution is backward compatible with the J1772 connector standard in the US. Backward compatibility also has been achieved in Europe where the system is based on the IEC 62196 Type 2. The approval of the J1772 standard has given electric vehicle owners the comfort of knowing they can charge at all Level 2 charging stations."

I also know that these seven automakers are going to be funding a large amount of the initial installations of the stations in Europe and the US. Much like Nissan is doing now with the CHAdeMO units. Tesla is also going to be installing their system. The more the merrier!

· jerry (not verified) · 26 weeks ago

These companies all agreed to use the SAE combo plug for Europe and US markets. Of any of them are making CHAdeMO compatable inlets, its for cars that will sell in Asian markets not Europe or the US. That was ehat the agreement was for, so they would all focus on the same quick charge infrastructure. Together they are going to install tens of thousands of them in the next decade starting in 2013

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

@Jerry

I'm talking about Europe.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/showthread.php/2809-Volkswagen-to-reveal-...

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

EVNow: I'm not sure that just because someone in the Tesla forums thinks VW be using it that they will. David and I have a mutual friend so I'll reach out to him and see if he can ask David how he came across to believe that was going to be the case. Either way this is all good news as it looks like there will be thousands of DC quick chargers of both varieties as well as Tesla quick chargers installed all over. Would it be better if they were all the same? Sure but it's pretty obvious that isn't going to happen. Both systems are going to be deployed in very large numbers in the next couple years. If one of them does "win", it will be years from now after thousands of both of them are installed and the "loser" units will simply be retrofitted. Maybe we'll see DC quick charge stations with a CHAdeMO connector on one side and a SAE combo connector on the other side so they can service either.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

David heard it from some VW guys.

"I had a chance to look at the Golf e-motions in London yesterday and chat to some guys from VW."

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

Oh BTW, having seen all the trouble getting the free QC installed - I'll believe thousands of QC of both varieties will be installed after they get installed.

· Tom Moloughney · 26 weeks ago

OK so I reached out to a couple sources about this. Looks like VW is going to make both, and decide what to use where. Since currently they haven't finalized the SAE combo plug, they are going to use CHAdeMO for testing, so it will be used on the Golf blue-e-motion they are currently making for testing.
The really good news is that it sounds like the OEM are all on the same page about needing quick charge, the connector stuff will work itself out in time.

· EVNow · 26 weeks ago

@Tom "the connector stuff will work itself out in time."

Right. It might even be a non-issue. Not very difficult or expensive to have both connects with QC.

· EVNow · 20 weeks ago

"So, $44,995 ? More importantly, I'd like to see a good lease plan. i3 is at the top of my list to get once my Leaf lease ends in 2014 Feb."

How things change over time- just 5 weeks back I posted the above.

But with winter driving, I'm now sure I want an EV with more range next time. With Leaf I'm running close with 60 mile trips (freeway + heater). That means I either need extensive recharging infrastructure for comfortable winter trips - or a higher range EV.

That leaves me with Infiniti EV & Tesla S at the top of the list and pushes i3 down. Ofcourse, Tesla S gets pushed down below Infiniti because they don't plan to put QUick Charge ability in their base $50k model.

· Brian Schwerdt · 20 weeks ago

@EVNow - "With Leaf I'm running close with 60 mile trips (freeway + heater)."
That seems to be pretty good for winter driving. How cold do your winters get? My friend only gets ~25 miles out of his Volt in the winter (he gets 45+ in summer), and he expects my Leaf will see a similar reduction in range to about (25/45) * 73 = 40 miles. I'd love to hear from people who have actually driven them through winter, but then again, the 2011 Leaf was distinctly not available in colder states.

· EVNow · 20 weeks ago

@Brian Schwerdt · "he expects my Leaf will see a similar reduction in range to about (25/45) * 73 = 40 miles."

Our winter has been in the 30s (and some days in high 20's).

BTW, your friend is using funny math. He uses 45 for Volt but EPA's 73 for Leaf ?

(25/35) * 73 = 52 miles.

I'm sure you can get to 52 miles in Leaf as well if driven aggressively (i.e. until you get "Low battery").

· Tom Moloughney · 20 weeks ago

The cold weather range is something I'm really looking forward to in the ActiveE. I'll spend a lot of time comparing how it handles the varying temperatures as compared to the MINI-E. And, as the i3 comes closer to production, I'll be talking with BMW engineers about this a lot. If I can't get 70+ miles in any temperature, I may consider the REx option if it isn't too expensive.

I love the Model S, but that's not an everyday commuter for me. I could see it as my wife's car and what we take on longer trips(I'd probably opt for the 230 mi pack). The i3 is just what I want for my everyday car.

· EVNow · 20 weeks ago

@Tom "I love the Model S, but that's not an everyday commuter for me. I could see it as my wife's car and what we take on longer trips(I'd probably opt for the 230 mi pack). The i3 is just what I want for my everyday car."

Yes i3 would be a good commuter car - but I don't have space for multiple cars. So I'll have to make do with one BEV & one PHEV.

i3 as a PHEV is an intrigueing idea. Do you know how high the seat is ? That is my wife's #1 criteria.

· Tom Moloughney · 20 weeks ago

i3 as a PHEV is an intrigueing idea. Do you know how high the seat is ? That is my wife's #1 criteria.

No. There will obviously be differences in the production version from the concept we've been seeing, however I'm told it's 80 to 90% the same. No use on speculating on the seating height until I can sit in the production version. However one thing is certain, it will have excellent outward vision in all directions, that has been discussed at length and why the concept even had the glass doors and a glass roof.

· Brian Schwerdt · 20 weeks ago

@EVNow - "BTW, your friend is using funny math. He uses 45 for Volt but EPA's 73 for Leaf ?"
I agree. He uses 45 for Volt because that's what he gets in summer time. He uses 73 for Leaf because it is an unknown to us. This is why I posed the question ;)

"Our winter has been in the 30s (and some days in high 20's)."
This is late fall/early spring weather here. Our winters get below zero regularly, and we typically go for 2-3 months hardly ever hitting 30. This is the weather that my friend gets 25 miles AER in his Volt. I guess time will tell. I've placed my order, but my Leaf won't arrive until march/april 2012. This is going to be a long winter!

· Vasiliy F (not verified) · 16 weeks ago

машина просто супер!!!!!!!!!!!!! была бы у меня такая я был бы счаслив!

· Tom Moloughney · 16 weeks ago

Yes Vasiliy I agree, super!

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A Clean Start

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