The meaning of MPGe is confused with the miles per gallon of gasoline used without counting electrical energy used. I can understand this kind of confusion from the general public but I expect more from plugincars.com.

This is similar to how some Volt owners say they get a >250mpg. It's really not that complicated and I expect better from this site (mistakes happen). Its possible for a PiP to get 136mpge in electric mode if driven gently, but not with 50% gas mode.

Okay, MPGe, as described by the EPA, is determined by calculating how many miles a car can travel on electricity (or combo) compared to the cost of a gallon of gasoline. Thereby, if an EV car has an MPGe rating of 99, then the cost of electricity to go that far would be equal to a gasoline car that could get 99 miles on one gallon. Another example would be, using the 99 MPGe EV used above, a gasoline Pruis can go 50 miles on one gallon of gas that would cost approximately $3.71. The EV rated at 99 MPGe, charged with $3.71 worth of electricity, will be able to go 99 miles. Any questions?

One thing is for sure. GM stupidly LIED about the configuration of the VOLT, even Lieing to dealers. None of the states were fooled, which was the obvious intention. This I believe is the source of all the confusion.

I am a satisfied owner of a VOLT, but is *not* a range-extended EV when you are going 66 mph or faster and the battery is dead.

Bill Howland,

"One thing is for sure. GM stupidly LIED about the configuration of the VOLT, even Lieing to dealers. None of the states were fooled, which was the obvious intention. This I believe is the source of all the confusion."

I believe you are referring to the fact that the Volt is not a pure series hybrid. The Volt can operate as a series hybrid or a parallel hybrid. The parallel hybrid mode is 10 to 15 more efficient. People who think a series hybrid is more efficient are the ones who are confused.

@smithjim1961

OH yeah there's a 10 % improvement in efficiency. Definitely worthwhile doing if you're a traveling salesman and on the freeways all the time..What percentage are volt customers is hard to say.

I'm just saying I had a discussion with a dealership's 'top tech' and I stated that the ICE directly connects to the wheels above 65 mph if it is on. Told me:

"You don't know what you're talking about. The engine is merely a GENSET., besides I went to school for a week on this thing." as he goes off Snapping his Suspenders.

I said, "Oh yeah? What is the 3rd clutch for?".

Top Tech, thinking silently for 10 seconds, " You know, they never did tell us what that clutch is for, I'll have to research this further."

That was one example where the truth was hidden. Another is a radio interview I heard about the top chevy dealer in Raleigh ( I forget names ) who was arguing with a radio host who had seen correct info in a Forbes article, stating, "you are wrong, the GENSET just charges the battery only". He was lied to by his serving corporation.

@John K.

If we can name an electric car after Nikoli's Induction Motor (George Westinghouse never seems to get any credit... I think that was his name, anyways, Westinghouse did the 99% of the 1% inspiration, 99% persperation priniciple of Thomas Alva), then I'm happy to personally give a little respect to Edison's most popular invention.

The Tesla service manager asked if I wanted to change out my incandescent headlights for HID's. Besides the THEFT concern, I told him, "This car has the best hibeams of any car i've ever driven! There's 240 watts of light on the road and I can see blocks away. I love those headlights man, don't change a thing.." May Edison RIP. (Before someone tells me that quartz-iodine is a refinement after Edison, I'll respond that there are several plain TAE bulbs right near it, including 23 watt turn signals. They're Great, just like the frosted flakes).

Bill Howland,

"..;OH yeah there's a 10 % improvement in efficiency. Definitely worthwhile doing if you're a traveling salesman and on the freeways all the time..What percentage are volt customers is hard to say..."

I suspect GM wanted the best MPG possible in charge sustaining mode MOSTLY because of public perception. When the EPA numbers were officially released I distinctly recall many people on sites, such as this one, who immediately criticized the Volt because the CS MPG number did not come close to the Toyota Prius.

"...I said, "Oh yeah? What is the 3rd clutch for?".

Top Tech, thinking silently for 10 seconds, " You know, they never did tell us what that clutch is for, I'll have to research this further."

That was one example where the truth was hidden..."

WOW, you can sure make a conspiracy theory out of nothing!!

Anyone who understands how a planetary gearset works can fully understand how the Volt powertrain works by viewing the following video.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=343-NQKOvLg

If you don't understand how a planetary gearset works that's understandable. Most people don't understand it including most car nuts and gear heads. But just because you don't understand precisely how the Volt powertrain works should not give you the right to call anyone a liar.

I did watch that 2011 chevy volt Q&A! Man what a comedy hour. That blonde engineer was what we used to normally call the "Head Engineer".

When she started talking about "Planetary Reactionary Force" you could see the other engineering types cringe.. hehe. When someone asked if there is a direct mechanical connection she said there isn't because it is indirect (hehehe), or "you can call it what you want".

Of course, I suspect this is an old video and they were still worried about saying whether the engine turn on battery point was 33% or whatever it is, "WE can't say for competitive reasons"; did not mention the 66 mph trip point, (apparently only motor trend and bankers are allowed to have this info), and they were still trying to operate under the rubric of that pure EV milarky.

It was very entertaining. There were at least some people in the audience you could tell were asking questions above the blonde's head. The others on the stage knew the answers but due to the above mentioned rubric did the "Baffle with BullCrap" routine. But it was fun.

@ex-ev1-driver
Well, that's an honest posting. hehe... Why that Jim1961 dude flipped out on his last post is kinda funny actually. Either Tunnel Vision or arrogance. He was pulling that crap about he's the only one who knows anything. So here's a question for him: Seeing as he stated he knows everything there is to know, let's see if he knows the answer to this. I honestly don't know the answer but I suspect the smaller 55kw motor/generator has the larger number of Poles and the 110kw motor #1 has the fewest. So let's see if he knows the answer to that, or more importantly if he even knows what I'm getting at here. If he doesn't he better brush up soon otherwise he'll appear silly.

I like the fact that they've essentially made a Prius while claiming it is their design. The Prius Synergy Drive is the forerunner of this thing, and this version of the synergy drive does come from Japan, even on the 2013's. So it would be interesting if either Toyota or its suppliers are making this model for GM. So the overall falsehood of this video is that its that novel. The real innovation car-wise would have been using the infinite ratio (intrinsic with a sun gear, spider, and ring gear) used first by Toyota. But lets overlook that for the moment. I have to give credit to the designer (probably Japanese) of Motor #1. That thing (assuming 300% breakdown torque) can provide the torque of a standard 30 hp motor, and look at how physically small the thing is including 2 clutches.
As far as efficiency goes, the biggest efficiency plus they have in the unit is using 'standard' helical gearsets (also keeps things quiet). But then we have to thank either Toyota or their suppliers as mentioned above. And the end result works. Its Nissan that has egg on its face this time, and not GM.

Here's a question for you ex-EV1, because I'm sure you've thought about it: WHY did it take Toyota so long to come out with a piprius? Or were there geo-political influences or other politics involved? Anyway, better late than never. And that new RAV4 seems also like a serious product. So way to go Toyota, lets have more!

@smithjim1961

No worries, I've had to admit I'd overstated the case once or twice on here as well.,

@Regman

Oh boy here we go again.

First off, its rude to say "You don't know what you're talking about", and then provide absolutely nothing concrete suporting it. I'm not going to adequately answer this since almost everyone on here says I don't know what I'm talking about at one time or another. But then after long (in my mind almost useless) conversations it is discovered I DO know more than I let on.

Specifics:

1). I've said the system is complicated. I have not said it is inefficient or it doesn't work. Please stick to what I personally have said myself.
2). Toyota came up with the first hybrid with this type of drive to my knowledge. GM is using it with the Sun, Spider and Ring in different places but you guys never see the forest for the trees. Just because something is slightly different or is used in a slightly different manner doesn't mean it is not SIMILAR. The fact that they have all come from Japan leads me to guess the design was a modification of an existing toyota design. To prove otherwise is almost impossible since manufacturers obviously reverse engineer things they haven't thought of .

2B). If you have watched those Revenge of the Electric Car movies you will remember how GM engineering teams said that making a profitable Electric Car is impossible. They had to eat their hat when Bob Lutz mentioned a couple of guys in their spare time making a car in california that went over 200 miles on a single charge and accelerated briskly.

3). The GM system is patented. If you have studied patents you will know that manufacturers make the most trivial change and patent that as if its a big deal.
4). As to incompetence, one thing I can definitely point to is the charging dock changes on some of the 120 volt Voltecs. The 4th version supplied with the 2013's is due to actions taken by me personally calling out incompetently made decisions on the 3rd version.
5). I have a 2011 volt. There are some very obvious incompetencies in the vehicle, however the synergy drive system to date seems to have been sufficiently perfected, and I'm overall satisfied with it and there are a few things I REALLY like.

So please do not broadbrush my specific statements. PLUGINCARS is a place where we are all supposed to share our knowlege and perspective. I enjoy discussions with people of other points of view, or looking at things from different angles, (GORR comes to mind for instance) but broad smearing statements don't accomplish anything. I have in the past said I disagree with others, but I point out exactly where there is my disagreement. To do otherwise is unfair and doesn't accomplish anything. So if you want to try again with something specific. Fire Away. Others read through these posts in hope of getting a feel for what is going on, so lets save their eyes for important posts.

@ex-ev1

If I was going to be mean spirited I would say that all that heavy complication and 'designed by committee' crap they have in the current VOLT is such a joke that not only do I just cart around everything for 29 days out of the 30 day month but 30 days out of 30 I get poor battery mileage due to carting around all that junk.

But I'm not going to say the above because its too easy to throw stones. I've suggested certain simplifications and streamlining, but I doubt anyone is going to listen until competive pressure from others forces them.

The volt still has the advantage of having decent battery only range. That is the sole reason I bought it in a car that I needed that won't leave me stranded.

The plug-in-prius may be OVERALL the more intelligently designed, and synergistic combination (they are using THEIR synergy drive, after all), that they combine battery and gas in concert to give an efficient economical ride.

@smithJim1961

Point taken. I was just embellishing on ex-ev1-driver's point that a chevy cruze eco is better than a chevy volt. Oh yes, no argument that the volt was always going to have an engine in it from 8 years ago. The thing that got people riled around here was the 2015 is supposedly going to have a more powerful turbo engine in it. I know originally either the volt or the cadillac version was going to have a 3 cylinder 1000cc, but a 4 cylinder naturally aspirated atkinson from Opel's Austrian plant was chosen due to poor factory utilization in Europe these days (in other words, give the engine plant something to make and not have to lay off so many soon to be mad Austrians). So a 2015 turbo powerhouse then means a beefier synergy drive, etc. They havent specified exactly what the engine is, so I was having a little fun speculating they may decide a V12 turbo is going to be the "range extension".

IF you notice my other posts the only thing I'm a fan of with Tesla's battery system is that I HOPE it is reliable. It certainly *Is NOT* efficient. Here is one place as I've stated before that the volt *shines*. Efficient at charging the battery, and efficient at holding the charge once its there.

So I suppose its not surprising that the Rav4 and Model S got attrocious mileage. They both have Tesla Batteries. As I say, If you want a low electric bill, buy a volt. A Rav4 or Model S will spin the meter probably another 20%.

@smithJim1961

Your conclusions are correct in the current car, however reading that article you mentioned showed they are thinking about changing everything else also. This seems like reinventing the wheel to me.... The basic car right now is good enough, and If I can't have my 1 cylinder option (they'd say its too much of a major overhaul to do what I want on a small volume product, and I can accept that argument), then the ONLY thing I need is a bigger battery. So if they concentrated on improving battery density and capacity, I'd be satisfied with that. Other people want bigger chargers, etc. That's ok too.